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#1 2007-04-11 11:00:40

shinkage ryu
Member
From: Virginia
Registered: 2007-04-11
Posts: 19

Kyotaku

What is the main defining characteristic that sets the kyotaku apart from other shakuhachi?  I know it is a much larger instrument, but is that all?  I have been listening to Koku Nishimura recently and his playing is profound.


“What sort of person are you, really, inside and what lies concealed there?”—the shakuhachi will undoubtedly supply the answer"
       
              (taken from: "Take No Kokoro" by by Kurahashi Yodo Sensei)

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#2 2007-04-11 13:48:49

dstone
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From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
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Re: Kyotaku

shinkage ryu wrote:

What is the main defining characteristic that sets the kyotaku apart from other shakuhachi?

Hi Jack.  There might be a student of Koryu or Koku Nishimura on the forum.  You'll get your best answer from them.

In the mean time, I'm no expert but I've held and briefly played some kyotaku and I have a book and some photos of Koku Nishimura's collection.  I'll tell you what I think I know about the subject...

Kyotaku are thick-walled, long, and have wide bores, but not extremely wide for their length (and not as wide as some are making flutes even today).  Some (maybe all?) the bores are lacquered.  I can't recall if ji paste was used at all (this is an important distinction to some -- sorry I don't know this).  The angle of the mouthpieces were cut perhaps slightly more bluntly than most shakuhachi but not to an extreme as with some very wide bore flutes.  All the utaguchi that I recall and can see in photos have (ivory) inlays, neither Kinko nor Tozan, but maybe Myoan-style (or similar to Kinya Sogawa).  Inlay wouldn't affect the sound at all, of course.  Finger holes were larger than average.  Obviously, these are all one-piece flutes.  Tuning is, give or take, the same as shakuhachi. 

There is a fair bit in common, I think, between what people call hocchiku (or hochiku) and kyotaku.  Tom Deaver gives his thoughts on Hochiku versus Shakuhachi.  Maybe hochiku are a bit wider on average.  Maybe they're less likely to be lacquered, without inlay, etc.  But they have a very similar philosophy to kyotaku in playing style, I think.  These aren't concert instruments.  They're not for ensemble.  They're not for folk music.  They're breathy and complex in timbre and maybe a little quieter on average.  You meditate with them and if anyone is around to hear you, so be it.

In the end, it's all just a bunch of rotting bamboo though, isn't it?  Koku Nishimura was clearly an enlightened player and that's the essence of kyotaku.  I'm sure he could have made a PVC pipe sing.

His son, Koryu, is a very nice man and teaches.  A Danish group, founded by a student of Koku, has a website here.

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#3 2007-04-11 18:02:16

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: Kyotaku

The person to ask would be Tilo Burdach, or look at his website.

Tilo told me Kyotaku must have 7 nodes and holes in the proper node placements. They have inlaid utaguchi and I think he said they use a particular kind of lacquer. Nevertheless Tilo also makes "practice" kyotaku from non root bamboo.

Other than that they are the same as hocchiku.

Basically Kyotaku and Hocchiku are both terms for long jinashi shakuhachi and the identifying characteristics are subtle.

I like Nishimura Koku's playing as well, although I know some people who don't!


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#4 2007-04-12 12:52:41

Hans van Loon
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From: Steenbergen, The Netherlands
Registered: 2005-10-16
Posts: 16
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Re: Kyotaku

As a pupil of Tilo Burdach I will add some things
first the kyotaku is indeed Ji-nashi, and the lacquer on the inside is just some simple laquer to prevent the moist to enter the bamboo, so no thick lacquer as in ji-ari flutes
the utaguchi can be ivory, buffalo horn or other things, and is indeed a bit Myoan style
the bore of the flute is big, and it is out of one piece, normally with 7 nodes in the bamboo
the breathing is very loose, say relaxed and meditative, as are the pieces and the fingering
the fingering is also more simple than the Kinko fingering systems
on my website I have an example of the fingering chart and of some pieces played on kyotaku
www.kyotaku.nl
unfortunately the englisch part of my site is not yet finished, and it is mainly in dutch
the name kyotaku comes from the Kyotaku Denkai, which can be read in english on the danish kyotaku website, but it is merely a legend
Koku Nishimura choose to name his flutes kyotaku again, but indeed it is a thick-walled, big bor ji-nashi shakuhachi
but : the pieces are in red-black notation and have a very meditative character
hope this clears up a bit

Hans


Kyotaku, the ZEN flute with the warm and serene sound

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#5 2007-04-12 14:22:49

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: Kyotaku

Hans van Loon wrote:

but : the pieces are in red-black notation and have a very meditative character
hope this clears up a bit

Hans

Thanks Hans, that's very helpful.

Note to everybody. When Hans refers to "red-black" notation: black is otsu (low octave) red is kan (high octave). Very ingenius! No more confusion about which octave you are in. This is one of the trademarks of Nishimura Koku notation.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#6 2007-04-12 17:27:35

Moran from Planet X
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From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
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Re: Kyotaku

Tairaku wrote:

Hans van Loon wrote:

but : the pieces are in red-black notation and have a very meditative character
hope this clears up a bit

Hans

Thanks Hans, that's very helpful.

Any chance of a Kyotaku teacher coming to the US or an advanced student living in the states? It's so valuable to get different teachings from different school's teachers


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#7 2007-04-13 14:04:17

philthefluter
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From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: 2006-06-02
Posts: 190
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Re: Kyotaku

Another small point: I remember Tilo saying that the holes are usually placed in a line, not like other long shakuhachi where the finger holes are moved to fit the fingers.


"The bamboo and Zen are One!" Kurosawa Kinko
http://www.shakuhachizen.com/
http://www.myspace.com/shakuhachizen

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#8 2007-04-14 04:30:17

Hans van Loon
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From: Steenbergen, The Netherlands
Registered: 2005-10-16
Posts: 16
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Re: Kyotaku

That's right , I forgot that.
The grip with the right hand is always with the first part ( closest to the hand) of the finger on the hole , and not with the tip, so even with big flutes the holes don't need an off-set, but other big shakuhachi are also played the same way
also the way the holes are divided on the flute is very strict, but in most shakuhachi you see the same proportions
It is allso a matter of how Nishimura liked to name things
there are other ji-nashi shakuhachi who qualify for kyotaku as well I think ( but that's my own interpretation )


Kyotaku, the ZEN flute with the warm and serene sound

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#9 2007-04-14 04:36:30

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: Kyotaku

Hans van Loon wrote:

That's right , I forgot that.
The grip with the right hand is always with the first part ( closest to the hand) of the finger on the hole , and not with the tip, so even with big flutes the holes don't need an off-set, but other big shakuhachi are also played the same way

Yes this is the best way to play long flutes. I also recommend using the fourth finger of the left hand on hole number three. Using this grip is much more efficient and also reduces stress on the wrist. Using the third finger is a carryover from 1.8 technique but they should be approached differently.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#10 2007-07-11 14:23:37

shinkage ryu
Member
From: Virginia
Registered: 2007-04-11
Posts: 19

Re: Kyotaku

you guys have helped me out so much.  I wish there was a way to repay you for your kindness ad knowledge.  Nishimura koku has probably been one of my biggest inspiration in terms of the long flute.  The long flute is my favorite to play : )  Where can I buy an original copy of his recordings?  perhaps on tape or vinyl?


“What sort of person are you, really, inside and what lies concealed there?”—the shakuhachi will undoubtedly supply the answer"
       
              (taken from: "Take No Kokoro" by by Kurahashi Yodo Sensei)

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#11 2007-07-11 14:44:29

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Kyotaku

shinkage ryu wrote:

Where can I buy an original copy of his recordings?  perhaps on tape or vinyl?

www.shakuhachi.com


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#12 2007-07-12 22:14:33

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Kyotaku

While on the subject, I thought I give a link to some photos of a student model kyotaku 2.4 made by Nishimura Koku's deshi Agar.  Under the technical definition of kyotaku, it seems that it doesn't quite fit the spec, however it was called a kyotaku by Agar when he gave it to me in 1994.  That suggests that use and intention are important defining features of a kyotaku as well as physical peculiarities.
Here's the link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10014218@N03/


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#13 2007-07-12 23:43:00

Harazda
Member
Registered: 2007-06-07
Posts: 126

Re: Kyotaku

I think that flute is gorgeous!  Very unique, and with beautiful carving.  Awesome.

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#14 2007-07-12 23:44:47

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Kyotaku

Nice flute, that looks like one of the flutes Tilo Burdach called "practice" kyotaku.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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