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#1 2007-12-29 13:25:28

Seth
Member
From: Scarsdale, NY
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 270

Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

Some new ager singing bowl musician fellow has asked me to jam with him - he on the bowls and me on shakuhachi.

Any advice / experience / words of wisdom on how these two should mix?

I asked him in what key his bowls are in and he looked mystified.

Any advice would be appreciated.

???

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#2 2007-12-29 14:47:21

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

Just listen...

And play.

Stop thinking and searching.

Enjoy...

It will come to you.



eB

Last edited by edosan (2007-12-29 14:54:44)


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#3 2007-12-29 16:55:20

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

I play with a gong dude frequently and sometimes I just blow the honkyoku and let him fill in. Other times we improvise and listen to each other. He also makes patterns and I jam on top of that. They do have pitches so you will have fun matching them. Just go for it.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#4 2007-12-30 12:25:55

keyofdman
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From: Hampstead, NC
Registered: 2006-09-27
Posts: 9
Website

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

I have played with singing bowls--I think it's a great combination. I agree with those who encourage you to go for it without worrying about key, etc. I have found, in working with others, that some magic happens when you trust in the process--there have been times when I have picked up a particular flute and blown the same pitch as another instrument being played (not that that HAS to happen....).
I believe the shakuhachi (and other instruments) are "sound generators." Especially when playing with Tibetan bowls, which are made for sound meditation, allow yourself to sit with each sound you make, rather than working to create "songs", and you will find that those sounds are all good.


"Argue for your limitations, and you get to keep them."
from Illusions, by Richard Bach

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#5 2008-01-02 19:58:13

axolotl
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From: Los Angeles
Registered: 2007-11-16
Posts: 215
Website

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

Maybe he looked mystified because each bowl isn't really in a 'key'--they just make a note.  If he has a ton of bowls, it won't matter, and you guys will be able to pick and choose which ones work best. 

I think this will be a truly awesome combo.  I'd love to have a big ol' fat bowl in the key, er, tuned to the note of D.

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#6 2008-01-02 20:39:15

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

Actually, it'd be more interesting for the bowl to be tuned to G (re) or A (chi).



eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#7 2008-01-02 23:25:18

PSTL
Member
From: Jacksonville, FL USA
Registered: 2006-08-02
Posts: 67

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

I first heard the shakuhachi a 4 or 5 years ago at a performance by "Life in Balance". Ami Sciulli played crystal bowls and her husband Steve on shakuhachi. http://www.lifeinbalancemusic.com/index.php/

I have since facilitated many meditations using crystal and tibetan bowls. The bowls are tuned to the chakras. You might want to Google crystal singing bowls and find out more.

C = root chakra
D = sacral chakra
E = solar plexus chakra
F = heart chakra
G = throat chakra
A = third eye chakra
B = crown chakra

The shakuhachi resonates very well with the bowls. Privately, I play my shakuhachi as particluar bowls resonate. It quite enjoyable.

Happy New Year!

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#8 2008-01-03 00:44:23

axolotl
Member
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 2007-11-16
Posts: 215
Website

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

Or F, or F.  I just pulled up a huge new age-y drone sound from a sound library and happily played along to a gigantic cosmic F.  It makes everything sound major!  smile  (with some 6ths thrown in)

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#9 2008-01-03 09:22:14

Vevolis
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From: Toronto, ON
Registered: 2007-12-24
Posts: 175
Website

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

I'd imagine a tibetan singing bowl would couple very well with a Shakuhachi. With most chakra resonance music, I find it most effective if an instrument hovers around (melodically) the fundimental tone (singing bowl). Because the Shakuhachi is capable of gliding through tones, returning to the fundimental note periodically (if applicable) would be very blissful considering the timbre of a metal (or glass) bowl and a stalk of bamboo. Stick your tongue on the roof of your mouth *while listening* and let it drone on!

I have a bowl tuned to A. Ironically, my Perry Yung flute is tuned to A. I can't wait to figure out how to play an A. tongue

Last edited by Vevolis (2008-01-03 09:22:50)

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#10 2008-01-03 12:22:46

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

Vevolis wrote:

I'd imagine a tibetan singing bowl would couple very well with a Shakuhachi. With most chakra resonance music, I find it most effective if an instrument hovers around (melodically) the fundimental tone (singing bowl). Because the Shakuhachi is capable of gliding through tones, returning to the fundimental note periodically (if applicable) would be very blissful considering the timbre of a metal (or glass) bowl and a stalk of bamboo. Stick your tongue on the roof of your mouth *while listening* and let it drone on!

I have a bowl tuned to A. Ironically, my Perry Yung flute is tuned to A. I can't wait to figure out how to play an A. tongue

I'm not sure what you mean by sticking your tongue to the roof of your mouth because if I do that I can't get any sound out.

  As an aside, Brian said he blew honkyoku over the highly sustaining percussion instruments. That would mean he's playing shakuhachi. However, if you don't play Japanese traditional music, or don't at least improvise using Japanese techniques, and you use the combination of bowls/chimes/gongs with shakuhachi, is it correct to call it shakuhachi? Even if the shakuhachi is made by a someone who knows shakuhachi music and has made it in a manner that you could play shakuhachi music on it, if you aren't playing shakuhachi music on it and you're also playing in a non-traditional setting, it probably isn't correct to say it's "shakuhachi and bowls/chimes/gongs" because you could probably do the same thing on one of those shakuhachi-wannabe instruments that we still haven't figured out a good name for.

  I know it seems like I'm getting a bit difficult about this issue, and I understand the argument about that if the maker/dealer isn't proficient in Japanese traditional music that the instrument might be useless to someone who wants to play Japanese traditional music, but I've purchased a bunch of instruments that probably aren't shakuhachi that I have no idea how to concisely tell anybody who asks what they are. One of my favorites that is probably closest to being a shakuhachi is an unsigned, tweaked, Ken LaCosse that seems to not have much of a 3rd register (probably the reason he didn't sign it) so probably isn't suited to Japanese traditional music. On one occasion after I played it for the yoga class I take, one new student recognized the instrument and asked me if it was a shakuhachi. I lied, which is a very un-yoga thing to do, and said yes. I'd like to use some of the other shakuhachi-wannabe instruments in public too, but dread the lengthy explanations if anyone asks me what the instrument is. Saying it's a shakuhachi so poorly made that it isn't a shakuhachi isn't a good alternative either because then there's a whole philosophical discussion involved about why I'd want to play a poorly made shakuhachi. Some of them I really do like, and hesitate to say they are poorly made, but I'm pretty sure they aren't suited to Japanese music. Maybe I should 'fess up and just say that I'm an inferior player who doesn't know traditional music so it doesn't matter, but then that would insult any listener who liked it. Besides, it almost seems that if I did that, it wouldn't be as much of an indication of humbleness as it would an indication of low self-esteem, which I have to admit I have, but not bad enough to deliberately flaunt it.

  And then as I pointed out above, if a shakuhachi-wannabe isn't a shakuhachi, what is the music that comes from it or from player that is only a wannabe shakuhachi player even if they are playing a real shakuhachi? Despite what Simon Cowell would say to an inferior singer on American Idol, isn't something that's not top notch still worthy of at least a little recognition?

  Maybe I'm getting too picky about this and the real name of the game is to just play, do what you do best for whatever situation you're in and have fun. But, OTOH this kind of discussion, with the ability of a large number of experts to give their opinion, is part of the beauty behind internet forums.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#11 2008-01-03 13:38:25

Vevolis
Member
From: Toronto, ON
Registered: 2007-12-24
Posts: 175
Website

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

Sorry if I was unclear. In chakra meditation, more specifically running the kundalini through belly breathing (look "Kundalini" up if you're interested) it is advised that you place your tongue on the top of your mouth while meditating to ground your nervous system, it's a bit weird. This is a meditation technique, not a playing technique.

African tribal music is unique in the sense that everyone participates; there are no "experts" or idols. In Western culture, we idolize specific individuals deemed professional musicians.

My take on the Shakuhachi VS Shakuhachi wannabe debate is that technically, a "Shakuhachi" is 1 foot 8 inches. Clearly there are exceptions to the rule. I own a 2.4 Perry Yung Shakuhachi. I'd imagine the word pays homage to the individuals who craft the instrument with the same respect and attention to detail as those in ancestry. After all, much of Japanese culture reflects honor in any given craft. I'd imagine yes, you could be considered a "Wannabe" Shakuhachi player if you're not willing to give a professional quality crafted instrument the honor it deserves by learning classical techniques.

That begs the question however; is a wannabe Shakuhachi really a wannabe Shakuhachi? Martial arts came from peasants revolting against the Samurai. A makeshift instrument is no less useful to the improvisational skills of an expert.

I suspect we’re all just a little proud of our babied and humidified grass stalks. 

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#12 2008-01-03 16:57:20

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

Hi Charles, I think you're taking the whole "shakuhachi" vs. "sort of a shakuhachi" issue a bit too personally. It's perfectly fine to make those instruments, fine to like them, fine to play them, and fine to use them for any kind of music you like. We are free.

I think you are referring to my post about Ebay. My point there is about truth in advertising, not about people not making or playing whatever they like.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#13 2008-01-03 18:42:31

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

Tairaku wrote:

Hi Charles, I think you're taking the whole "shakuhachi" vs. "sort of a shakuhachi" issue a bit too personally. It's perfectly fine to make those instruments, fine to like them, fine to play them, and fine to use them for any kind of music you like. We are free.

I think you are referring to my post about Ebay. My point there is about truth in advertising, not about people not making or playing whatever they like.

I guess I am taking it a little personally, but although it's partly about your "beware" post a month or so ago, it's also about your response to Chris on his Blog that some of them weren't shakuhachi and another poster over the past year who stated (I think twice) that the shakuhachi on Ebay looked suspicious. It's obviously true that most of the Japanese instruments are usually in states of disrepair, sometimes severe, or just plain bad playing instruments and that there are a bunch of others that are just bamboo sticks with shakuhachi mouthpieces and holes drilled to make them play a pentatonic scale. I thought that how you could tell that these weren't shakuhachi just by looking was that they weren't root end and had the wrong number of nodes. When I inquired, I found out that this wasn't the reason. I was told that most of them were made by people who didn't really know Japanese music and may not be suitable for Japanese music because of one or more notes missing (I may be getting this confused with a buyer's guide sitting out there on Ebay by grassandwind, but posts here seemed to say the same thing) and therefore were not shakuhachi. If the advertising were then to be accurate, these sellers shouldn't even be listing them under shakuhachi. I'm not the only one taking it (too?) seriously. I know this is true because a relatively new registered forum member mentioned that he sold his first few sticks as "bamboo flutes" instead of as shakuhachi. It's obviously too strict of a definition because some respected dealers are selling similar flutes that aren't suitable for lessons and don't have all the characteristics of a good shakuhachi but are still calling them shakuhachi. They sell them at appropriate prices as do most of the Ebay shakuhachi-wannabee dealers so I'm not seeing the same misrepresentation that you saw (occasionally I see some real wierdo flutes but they are usually accurately described in the description as being a hybrid or something). Calling them "bamboo flutes" is way too vague, but if they truly aren't shakuhachi, what are they? Maybe toy shakuhachi, but that implies that they're for kids even though they are suitable for adults. Bad shakuhachi isn't descriptive because some of them are kind of nice even though they aren't suitable for Japanese music. However, bad shakuhachi kind of fits your analogy to the Mexican food found in Australia. I kind of think Ken's term in one of his posts, "folk shakuhachi", fits well. I'm willing to agree that if an instrument can't play Japanese music that there is no way it can be a shakuhachi, but there are too many of them around to not give these "non-shakuhachi" a name.

   You know, this isn't the first time I've seen this kind of thing happen. One of my hobbies is dancing West Coast Swing. When some group of people take to breaking the rules of the dance in a certain way and it looks good, the West Coast swing community is kind of forced to give it a new name or call it a certain style. The mix of West coast swing and tango and calling it Swango is an example. Honestly, I'm not upset about anything here, I'm just trying to get things sorted out.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#14 2008-01-03 20:34:27

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

Back to the topic, John Singer has a CD here http://zenflute.com/recordings.html which is shakuhachi and Tibetan bells. I am sure other people have made similar recordings as well.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#15 2008-02-13 16:16:06

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

I a meet singer which plays the singing bowls. I am jaming with her this weekend.

How did your jam go?

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#16 2008-02-13 17:08:32

Seth
Member
From: Scarsdale, NY
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 270

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

It actually went quite well and we continue to meet up working on a couple of songs.

Basically it was very spontaneous and we settled on a few sequence of notes that we play with.  He uses the bowl as a base tone, but then does a lot of great stuff with his voice - which is quite good. 

Hard to describe in words, but it does work.  He has a meditation circle once a month and I am now a featured 'guest' performer for one of his meditation pieces.   When it gets a little more baked I may post a recording of us. 

Best advice given was just to relax and see what happens.  We had a bunch of false starts before we found something worthwhile.

Thanks everyone for the input and advice!

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#17 2008-02-15 10:35:10

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Singing bowls and shakuhachi... a match made in?

thats Great!
You got a Gig:-)

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