Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

Hello and welcome.
My advice would be to take some lessons if possible. Where are you located?

I suppose you should decide what kind of shakuhachi future your interested first.  It is possible to learn to play without a teacher but you'll be missing much of what (I think) makes the shakuhachi the shakuhachi.  I think the playing skills you learn from a teacher are a relatively small part of the experience. 

I'm also very new to the flute (2 months or so) and I can say that having a regular teacher has improved my playing skills dramatically and also inspired me to even greater potentials and possibilities.  I'm takings lessons with Michael Gould online.  I understand there are other teachers on this forum that also offer online lessons. 

Then again, I hear that NYC is a shakuhachi goldmine

Welcome!

Last edited by withaquietmind (2008-02-17 21:40:09)

If you aren't able to create notes yet, practice more. I think even without a teacher you can experiment, along with reading about proper emboucher (this site has a ton of references), and you'll improve a LOT. Keep at it. Also buy some Shakuhachi CDs and 'listen'. (I've been practicing on my own for less than a month, and I've improved quite a bit).

NYC IS a shakuhachi goldmine. There are two dai shihans (i.e. very, very highly rated players) here, and a any number of other licensed teachers, as well, in Kinko and Tozan schools (I can't think of any dokyoku teachers off-hand). Plus, there are regular concerts (some free) where you can see great performers (for instance, Ronnie Seldin, Jim Schlefer and Yoshio Kurahashi all played together just last week).

I've been studying for a little over four years, and there have been many, many times that I got over a substantial hump because of my teacher, which I would never have gotten over on my own. I play a couple other instruments, and shakuhachi is by far the most challenging.

I think you should definitely contact Ronnie or Jim. If money is tight, ask about going only once or twice a month, or whether one of them has a licensed student who might be giving lessons at lower rates. In the long run, it will be well worth it.

-Eric

Blow when you can, be attentive, enjoy...


Peace my friend...

Eclipse wrote:

Time and money is sort of tight. Would it be possible if I can just learn by myself at the time? I have no desire to learn from a specific school at the time.

Any other advice?

I don't want to burst your bubble, but for your aspirations I think you've got both the wrong flute and the wrong budget. I think you said you had a David Swindler flute. What I've seen of his "shakuhachi" is that he likes to be experimental in both mouthpiece shape and tuning. This is fine for free-form blowing, but not for any of the traditional styles. There are other low-budget alternatives for shakuhachi, but as far as playing traditional music, lessons are probably your best bet. I know some people here have made some strides learning notation and traditional music some by themselves, but personally I think this is more difficult and complicated than it is worthwhile.

Another route you can take is to just learn to blow and improvise by yourself. For this the most you'd need to take is a lesson or two or three to learn some blowing techniques. Depending on your experience with other flutes you can get pretty far completely on your own. This is basically the route that I've taken. The beauty of this is that you won't be as overwhelmed by needing to learn notation, music, and how to blow a hard to control instrument all at the same time. Besides that, your current instrument will be suitable. The drawback is that any time you come out of your isolation and converse with those going the lesson route, you'll feel like you don't know much.

In my case, since I don't want to commit to regular trips to NYC for lessons ever, I keep thinking that maybe eventually I'll visit a workshop where I can learn at least part of a traditional song. I don't thnk learning just one tune is all that bad, I've memorized over 100 Irish tunes and what do I have to show for it a few years later? I can only remember one. The same thing has happened with other performance related hobbies of mine. So why should I repeat the process with shakuhachi? I find it more satisfying to improvise, I don't find excercising my memory all that exciting anymore.

I know that Jon Kypros, or Shingetsu here on shakuhachiforum, is offering embouchure lessons in NYC to learn blowing. That would be a good place to start while you figure out what you want to do to meet your needs and will still suit your budget.

I heard of a PVC Yuu Shakuhachi. Where can I find those?

Dear Eclipse,

I suggest you don't listen to Radi0gnome because tragically, he has no idea what he is talking about. Think about it, the Shakuhachi is a beautiful flute. But in reality, what is it really? It is just a piece of hollowed out bamboo with holes and when you blow on it, a sound comes. Nowadays, these beautiful instruments made from a material that was highly prized because it was "nothing-special" is now ridiculously overpriced. I am pretty sure when they shakuhachi was first invented, they did not charged ridiculous prices.

As for the plastic flute that you describe, again do not listen to Radi0gnome. If you tested its sound against a real bamboo [which you have mentioned] and its sound is clear and nice, then you are sure to go. I find it horrible that he insulted you saying that he thinks you're on the wrong budget, wrong aspirations, wrong flute, etc etc. The keyword there is THINK. He doesnt know you, so he does not know what your aspirations really are.

Please don't get discouraged.

Hey Rtohan/Eclipse,

Having conversations with yourself is a sign of mental illness. If you pull yourself together let us know by making some useful posts.

In the meantime the rest of you, be aware you are dealing with a troll here.

Ciao from Pisa,

BR

Rtohan wrote:

Dear Eclipse,

I suggest you don't listen to Radi0gnome...

This is so cool! I don't care if it's a troll talking to himself, I think some good discussion can come from this post.

Rtohan wrote:

... because tragically, he has no idea what he is talking about. Think about it, the Shakuhachi is a beautiful flute. But in reality, what is it really? It is just a piece of hollowed out bamboo with holes and when you blow on it, a sound comes.

This is exactly what I thought until about a year ago. And it's kind of true, there are lot's of shakuhachi, even made by respected makers, that aren't suitable for lessons. 

Rtohan wrote:

Nowadays, these beautiful instruments made from a material that was highly prized because it was "nothing-special" is now ridiculously overpriced. I am pretty sure when they shakuhachi was first invented, they did not charged ridiculous prices.

Tom Deaver's website says that the historical price was about a month's pay for a trade. That was about how long it took to make one. It seems like that hasn't changed for instruments that are suitable for lessons.     

Rtohan wrote:

As for the plastic flute that you describe, again do not listen to Radi0gnome. If you tested its sound against a real bamboo [which you have mentioned] and its sound is clear and nice, then you are sure to go.

A beginner testing against a bamboo flute doesn't really count. Try bringing it to a teacher. First off, Eclipse said the notes are in tune. That's a good start. But are they in tune through both octaves? Can you get into the third octave? How deep can you meri/kari? How does it respond to being overblown? These are all factors that go into deciding the quality of a flute, and there are probably more I'm unaware of. 

Rtohan wrote:

I find it horrible that he insulted you saying that he thinks you're on the wrong budget, wrong aspirations, wrong flute, etc etc. The keyword there is THINK. He doesnt know you, so he does not know what your aspirations really are.

I'm sorry if it sounded like an insult, but it sounds like Eclipse is set to run into the same problems I ran into in the early '90's when I got my first "shakuhachi". It was bamboo, and I'd still call it a shakuhachi, but it falls into the folk-flute category of shakuhachi. So, I buy some shakuhachi recordings and think "what's going on, this instrument isn't going to be able to get those sounds". So, I consider lessons, never got around to it, but eventually ran into someone taking lessons. Her shakuhachi looked entirely different, cost over $1000, and was the minimum of what I'd need. It wasn't that I didn't have the money at the time, but I didn't want to spend it. It was a disappointment, but I still enjoyed the folk-flute shakuhachi for many years after that. Eclipse said his aspirations were to play traditional music, has a David Swindler plastic flute,  and that he is on a budget that makes lessons impractical. It's true that I don't know a lot of other details, but those conditions strongly suggest that he too will be disappointed.     

Rtohan wrote:

Please don't get discouraged.

I didn't mean to discourage. But something will need to change for Eclipse. Either he gives up the thought of learning traditional music for a while and just enjoy the David Swindler plastic flute as it is, or get a flute suitable for lessons and traditional music (he already knows about the Yuu option for this). Then the budget to pay lessons is another issue.