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Tube of delight!

#1 2008-04-19 00:35:49

amokrun
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

Getting used to scales, honkyoku techniques etc.

Lately I've been trying to get into the strange world of electric guitars. So far I'm basically nowhere but at least it has been a fun trip so far. While getting started with learning some basic notes and scales I noticed something interesting. A lot of people in the west learn music through some western instrument. Guitar is pretty typical I'd think. Most material I've seen teaches basics like C major scale as well as some major chords. However, I quickly found that while C major scale felt a bit foreign to me, I could easily play a piece like Sakura on guitar and even do some simple improvisations during it. I could even come up with a simple melody using the same notes used in that piece, namely Ro, Tsu meri, Re, U and Ri in shakuhachi terms. I came to realise that I had been using that scale for so long with shakuhachi that it felt very natural to me and I could somehow come up with melodies using it even though I had trouble with actually finding notes on the guitar.

Some time ago my father tried to play Sakura from notes. He had some trouble even though the piece itself isn't that difficult. The problem was that the progression in the piece wouldn't match his gut feeling of how the piece should go. I came to realise that over the course of playing different kinds of music we tend to stick to what we know and use that in various ways. To me, hearing and playing various japanese scales sounds quite natural and I can easily predict how some piece will go. If I'm forced to improvise something, odds are that I will automatically go for one of those scales without really thinking about it. Someone else with background in western music might go for C major scale or something equally western and play something using that.

I find it rather interesting that experience with one style of music translates to various habits in another. It sounds fairly obvious when phrased like this but actually seeing it happen with your own playing makes it that much more tangible. The same thing happened when my teacher played some improvised music with shakuhachi. Although he made up the melody itself, his playing still sounded very much like your average honkyoku since he was utilizing the same techniques, scales and transitions that he used every day. This experience taught me the importance of repeating the same honkyoku often. By playing those pieces over and over you slowly develop an intuitive feel for how the music should go and it becomes very natural to play it that way. Once you have that you can play pretty much anything while still maintaining that particular style for the music.

At first it seemed strange that nobody had really pointed out that this is why it is important to play honkyoku if you wish to develop that particular sound. Then again, odds are that people have tried to point it out but it's just one of those things that you need to figure out for yourself before it really sinks in. There is that difference between knowing something in theory and really understanding what it is all about. Figuring this out made me want to practice my honkyoku playing that much more.

Happy early summer to everyone.

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#2 2008-04-19 13:27:36

shaman141
Member
From: Montreal, QC.
Registered: 2006-02-02
Posts: 154
Website

Re: Getting used to scales, honkyoku techniques etc.

Knowledge is knowing how to clean a windshield, wisdom is doing it.


Find your voice and express yourself, that's the point.

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#3 2008-04-19 13:52:48

Kerry
Member
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 183

Re: Getting used to scales, honkyoku techniques etc.

amokrun wrote:

I could somehow come up with melodies using it even though I had trouble with actually finding notes on the guitar.

You need a whammy bar or go fretless, or both! But it's still a guitar...wink


The temple bell stops, but the sound keeps coming out of the flowers. -Basho

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#4 2008-04-19 23:49:09

amokrun
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

Re: Getting used to scales, honkyoku techniques etc.

Kerry wrote:

You need a whammy bar or go fretless, or both! But it's still a guitar...wink

Actually I was planning on getting a whammy pedal instead. I tried a bar but somehow it seemed trickier to use than a pedal since you are already using that hand for playing.

As for fretless guitars... they actually make those things? Now I know what I need to buy next! :-)

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#5 2008-04-19 23:59:37

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Getting used to scales, honkyoku techniques etc.

fretless guitar rocks!!!
Only that is A LOT of work to play in tune:-)

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#6 2008-04-20 01:38:27

amokrun
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

Re: Getting used to scales, honkyoku techniques etc.

geni wrote:

fretless guitar rocks!!!
Only that is A LOT of work to play in tune:-)

It actually bothers me a bit that it is fairly difficult to play out of tune with guitar - save for actually messing up with tuning of course. My ears are so used to getting, for example, a slightly flat Eb in many pieces that playing them on guitar sounds just wrong. At my skill level it's pretty hard to bend notes down consistently by pulling the strings and still play at decent pace. Part of why shakuhachi sounds so nice is that one can get lots of notes between a note and use that to create slight changes in the mood of the piece. Sometimes a well placed drop to slightly flat can cause the phrase to sound entirely different than if you played it a bit sharp or at correct pitch. Then you get the various slides from one note to another that can begin or end at a point which is between notes. After a while your ear seems to start to look for these changes and makes perfectly pitched notes sound somewhat dull.

Maybe I should buy a cheap guitar from somewhere and pull out the frets. Odds are that some amount of polish on the fret board should make it possible to use that as a fretless instrument. Who knows, it might be a slight step towards being able to do the things I liked the most about shakuhachi on guitar.

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#7 2008-04-20 08:20:51

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Getting used to scales, honkyoku techniques etc.

amokrun wrote:

Maybe I should buy a cheap guitar from somewhere and pull out the frets. Odds are that some amount of polish on the fret board should make it possible to use that as a fretless instrument. Who knows, it might be a slight step towards being able to do the things I liked the most about shakuhachi on guitar.

Or you could try violin. A lot of cultures with music that has microtones have adopted violin as an integral part of "traditional" ensembles. Personally, I've never been able to relate to an instrument that I didn't have to blow into to get a sound. I see how they are challenging to learn and like the sounds they make, but I just can't understand why anyone would want to play one, they just aren't satisfying enough to play. Percussion instruments an exception, probably because of the physicality involved. I know that breathing is important with any instrument, but just the idea of being able to hold my breath and usually finding myself inadvertantly holding my breath while playing an instrument seems wrong and a struggle I like to avoid by playing wind instruments.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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