Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

Right on Chris. 

I have asked a lot of players about soko-yuri and this is something there seems to be a great deal of confusion about. Like everything else.

I was practicing yuri, furi, nayashi, hiku, etc without head movements and it's possible to do all that without moving your head. I generally use a mixture of finger, head and mouth to get those effects.

Brian, sounds like the front seat is no stranger to you.

madoherty wrote:

In a rehearsal for a piece I composed using this sense of what I have called "harmonic silence" I had to ask repeatedly that the strings not use vibrato.  I think that they were offended.  What I got back was that the violin would not sound like a violin without vibrato.  It is near this time also that I started writing pieces for "voices" and not specified instruments.

String players(bowed) also use vibrato to ease any pitch disparities. To match perfectly straight tones requires an even tighter than normal scrutiny of pitch. That might be why they got uncomfortable. But they should be able to do it. For some people, vibrato is a habit they can't turn off. Big problem.

Last edited by Jim Thompson (2008-07-20 13:27:13)

madoherty wrote:

In a rehearsal for a piece I composed using this sense of what I have called "harmonic silence" I had to ask repeatedly that the strings not use vibrato.  I think that they were offended.  What I got back was that the violin would not sound like a violin without vibrato.  It is near this time also that I started writing pieces for "voices" and not specified instruments.

Hi Madoherty
Do you have any recording of this on the internet? It would be great to hear some of it.

Jim Thompson wrote:

String players(bowed) also use vibrato to ease any pitch disparities. To match perfectly straight tones requires an even tighter than normal scrutiny of pitch. That might be why they got uncomfortable. But they should be able to do it. For some people, vibrato is a habit they can't turn off. Big problem.

Hi Jim
This reminds me of my own playing and using yuri. When I first started studying with Kurahashi Yoshio, I had a constant yuri going on, as that was the style of the Kinko school I had come from. He asked me to play without yuri (when studying honkyoku), but I kept using it! (Not because I was disobedient, but because I couldn't stop!) He told me "If you choose to use yuri, you can use it, but if you are using it just because it's a habit, you should learn to stop using it! First quit it, then after, you can choose when and where to use it."

I think that was great advice. Finally I managed it.

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

Last edited by Justin (2008-07-20 20:40:48)

Kiku Day wrote:

I think we have talked about many interesting aspects of yuri and other vibrato-like techniques now. And some of the names are used in some schools but not in others. Perhaps we should make a list of yuri etc known to us. I will start the list, and please add to it.

• Tateyuri
• Yokoyuri
• Mawashiyuri
• Takeyuri
• Sokoyuri
• Takeyogeyuri
• Furi
• Furiokuri
• Nayashi
• Ikinayashi

I know there are loads more, but I can't think of others right now.

Hi Kiku,
    A complete list of these terms, what they mean, and the notations for them is something I wish I had. Any body have the resources to do that?  Kiku?

Jim Thompson wrote:

A complete list of these terms, what they mean, and the notations for them is something I wish I had. Any body have the resources to do that?  Kiku?

Sure thing, although 'complete' is a big word. But we can try! Please help everybody!

• Tateyuri: Vertical head movements
• Yokoyuri: Horizontal head movements
• Mawashiyuri: Head movements in circles
• Takeyuri: Shaking the shakuhachi in order to get the effect of very fine yuri.
• Sokoyuri: Large vertical head movements (especially down)
• Takeyogeyuri: same as takeyuri (some say finer...?)
• Furi: A single or more head movement down often in combination with atari.
• Furiokuri: A single or more of head movement trying to get the effect as if one threw the sound off
• Nayashi: portamento (usually down or down-up. This one really varies depending on school, so please add)
• Ikinayashi: A type of nayashi the composer Takahashi Yuji told me about. He worked with Yokoyama, so perhaps KSK people know more...

OK shakuahchi folks. Add some more. This could be fun because we can compare the differences ! ! !

A definitive dictionary of shakuhachi related terms in English and Japanese is an absolutely stellar idea. What publisher wouldn't want to get their hands on that hot ticket?     
     We are brilliant visionaries! Now all we need is someone to do the massive amount of work. Oh well, it's still a great idea.

Vibrato is insidious and easily becomes an addiction. It covers up the raw beauty of a straightforward tone as well as a player's flaws. If you boil every vegetable in your garden you end up not with uniquely shaped zucchinis, eggplants, and peas but simply English food -- short on presentation and even shorter on nutrition. Yuri, I think, should be used consciously and judiciously, or, if it's spontaneous, sparingly.

The exception might be a few great Kinko players like Yamaguchi Goro, whose vibrato is so finely executed and delicate that, though almost continuous, it enhances rather than clobbers the subtleties of the music. Few achieve his level of precision, and perhaps not many more necessarily aspire to that sort of very specific patrician elegance as a goal of shakuhachi study.

There have been comparisons with drunken sailors and two bit hookers, but overuse of yuri has always reminded me of Katherine Hepburn running lines while going down on Spencer Tracy. Maybe not beautiful.

Kiku wrote:
But no-one has added to the list of yuri, furi etc.

Well, here are a few VERY obscure ones I've heard of:

Yuri gagarin - somewhat spacey vibrato prefered by Russians

Yurinal - a bit stinky, but hard like porcelain

Yurinidiot - very insulting vibrato, often leads to fisticuffs

Yurili otto gividup - A shakuhachi players worst fears realized via bad vibrato...

Zakarius wrote:

Elliot K wrote:

Yurili otto gividup - A shakuhachi players worst fears realized via bad vibrato...

This last one is not so obscure... I think we've all toyed with that last one now and then

Zak -- jinashi size queen

yurili ah turomo no yuri - when in doubt

Hold on just a sec Kiku, we're not dead yet. I just discovered that Tairaku, in his eternal wisdom,  has a list of terms already started on this forum. You'll find it at  shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=1327.   How about making this list a little more accessible and expandable? I know it's not that simple, somebody has to monitor it and verify accuracy. Rats! We just keep coming up against that hard work thing. Anybody with a scholarly bent up for that?
       Your list of yuri terms was well beyond my knowledge of terms.  That's why I didn't add anything. Maybe people are interested in this.   Let's see.

Ok, I will try to see if I can add onto that... some time.
It would be great to see the different schools' terms, and it would help when picking up a tozan score for sankyoku etc.

Hi,

couple of weeks ago I attended a camp with Teruhisa Fukuda in France. I asked him for some vibrato examples and he draw for me some pictures which I then copied. These I have now recreated with in my computer. Enjoy! 

Disclaimer: I have not asked for the names, I didn't care.

Cheers,

Marek