Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

Brian,  you're not one of the famous players I was talking about this time. I was looking around in the mornings during the Tamuke exercise and also watching as people were trying out flutes at the sellers stand upstairs.

Sorry I've been gone a while and couldn't reply. Everything Lodro has mentioned so far is spot on with my understanding and experience of things. Except for the following:

Lodro wrote:

With qigong, taiji and the eastern tactile therapies one of the things we do is to encourage the natural flow of qi (through visualisation/tactile manipulation/movement) up the spine along the du meridian to the top of the head and then down the front of the body along the ren meridian where it joins up again with the upward motion thus creating a loop. This is one of the major circuits of qi in the body; the potential for using the Shakuhachi to stimulate the flow in this way is quite fascinating

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     I was only taught to follow the line upwards from the inhalation through the nose, up across the head and down the spine , inwards to the dantien, pause, then back up through the mouth. If there are any reference books in English please direct us to them. It will save you a lot of time answering my questions. 

Lodro wrote:

With regard to the hara breathing, and this might sound a bit odd coming from the person here who is probably the least experienced player in the whole forum, but I would say that if you were to focus on the dantien (and here I'm not just talking about diaphragmatic breathing) whilst you're playing, then I believe it could make quite profound changes to your playing (please, I don't mean to judge any of your playing here either - I'm sure you're all wonderful players)

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  Great advice. If people try it then they can learn how it's beneficial for themselves. Having this image in the mind is the first step. The image will work it's way inside you like cracking open a door. It may take a while to see the effect of the image but eventually it will help you open the door to see what's inside. Glenn's explanation is very clear too and should give people a lot to chew on. I think it may lead to some understanding of the relationship of KI and breath. However, if attention isn't given to the  development of the embouchure and it's bond with the shakuhachi then the transference of KI (energy) into sound (energy) will be less than what it could be.

Radiognome wrote:

I'm curious what Chikuzen's answer to this question will be. Although it's called diaphragmatic breathing, my understanding was that for both silver flute and voice the chest cavity should be kept expanded, similar to what is being demonstrated in these videos;

Radiognome, I think you misunderstood me. Actually, I learned from Taniguchi sensei about expanding the chest first by simply lifting it. The act of lifting it allows it to fill with air and then one keeps it immobilized while doing diaphragmatic breathing. My example was given in response to "What could be the ill effects of belly breathing" and was stating something I heard about getting the stale air out of the lungs when not playing the shakuhachi. I don't know about Japanese people compressing the lungs and belly breathing at all.
      I also had a conversation with another forum member well trained in these activities who explained to me that diaphragmatic breathing will push the stale air out of the bottom of the lungs better than trying to deflate the lungs and exhale it. That makes a lot of sense to me.

Last edited by chikuzen (2009-04-13 12:49:48)

Interesting bunch of breath videos. The plot thickens.
I think the harmonica player demonstrates the effectiveness of diaphragmatic breathing  as it would apply to shakuhachi. Perhaps the fundamental difference lbetween transverse flute technique and shakuhachi technique supports the reason for developing different breathing technique.

Again, at the Festival, stan richardson suggests practicing blowing shakuhachi while lying on your back to develop abdominal breathing. He also mentioned how this also develops strength in our back muscles.

Kel.

chikuzen wrote:

Brian,  you're not one of the famous players I was talking about

Whaddya mean I'm not famous?

chikuzen wrote:

watching as people were trying out flutes at the sellers stand upstairs.

Man that was the only bad thing about the festival, all those honkers making racket you could hear in the recital halls not to mention the blowhards running through their "licks". It was the shakuhachi equivalent of walking into a music store and one guitarist is playing "Smoke on the Water" while another plays "Stairway to Heaven" and a bassist plays some crap like "Blister in the Sun". I hope the next festival has a soundproof room for flute sales or a separate building. Yuck!

Lodro wrote:

Glenn Swann wrote:

Lodro was describing, it seems to me, the microcosmic orbit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcosmic_orbit

Yes, the microcosmic orbit is what I was referring to.

Here's a quote from from Jerry Alan Johnson's 'Chinese Medical Qigong Therapy' Volume 1

"One of the functions of the Microcosmic Orbit is to connect the energetic and spiritual centres of the Three Dantians. Once an individual has been born, his or her Microcosmic orbit will naturally flow in the direction of the Water cycle, with the energy moving up the front of the body (Conception Vessel) and down the back (Governing Vessel). This energetic movement naturally facilitates the child's spiritual, intuitive, and psychic perceptions. This energetic pattern generally continues until the child reaches puberty, at which time the energy reverses its direction and flows up the back (Governing Vessel) and down the front (Conception Vessel) which is the direction of the Fire cycle. This energetic switch in direction facilitates the child's cognitive development and the ability to control emotions and impulses. The time of the Microcosmic Orbit's energetic reversal varies depending on the child's physical constitution, state of health, and his or her environment."

A book which describes microcosmic orbit in great detail, as well as immense amounts of info about the energetic, philosophical and mechanical workings of taiji, is Master Jou Tsung Hwa's classic "The Tao of Tai-chi Chuan".  Kind of required reading for serious taiji players, but i think edifying for anyone with an interest in qi and chinese philosophy.

btw, Lodro, have you ever come across the idea that the orbit for adult men is up the back down the front, but adult women maintain up the front down the back?

Also, i was thinking that the Aikdo misogi or "ki breathing" is another great way to conceive of qi/shakuhachi relationship, which could also be done with Kawase sensei's rising/falling idea. Andrew MacGregor's website has this-
http://www.japanworldmusic.com/misogi.htm
I've experimented with misogi breathing before. It's good stuff.

Glenn Swann wrote:

btw, Lodro, have you ever come across the idea that the orbit for adult men is up the back down the front, but adult women maintain up the front down the back?

No I hadn't heard of that one, maybe it comes from the concept of women being yin and men yang. This might lead to the possibility of women retaining the natural yin yang flow. Whereas men, who as children tend to maintain that nice yin thing until they reach puberty, might well require that reversal of flow in order to become what they are - I don't know, just vaguely hypothesising. Interesting.

Hello everyone, I would just like to scotch a rumour that I heard- that there were no Shakuhachi players in Adelaide. Well my friend Ray Mercer and I played at the Art Gallery of S.A. on Sunday 26th April and it went well. We both study with Michael Gould. I find his teaching excellent. We are also playing at Japan Australia Friendship Society's children's day on Sunday 3rd May at Cowandilla Primary School, around 2.30pm and will be playing a number of "vingettes" around the place before this on stage presentation. We will be exercising ALL of our meridians certainly, and blowing sweetly we hope. Our repertoire consists at present of  several Honkyoku and a number of Min'yo folk tunes, a duet and and a solo each.

sasabuki wrote:

Hello everyone, I would just like to scotch a rumour that I heard- that there were no Shakuhachi players in Adelaide.

That makes 3 of us now that I know of, I'm an Adelaide person too.

sasabuki wrote:

We are also playing at Japan Australia Friendship Society's children's day on Sunday 3rd May at Cowandilla Primary School, around 2.30pm

Going to miss that one as I'm working at the East End Markets massage stall that day. I'll try to catch you guys another time

Last edited by Lodro (2009-05-01 04:19:02)

Don't know about the shakuhachi scene in Adelaide, but the best steak in Australia is at Gaucho's on Gouger St.

And if you haven't been there yet you must go to South Australia Art Gallery and see "Japanese Art from Australian Collections". It's massive and they even have an Enku sculpture. Wow!

That would be a good day. Art museum and then a juicy steak. Think I'll hop on a plane.

Hey all,

In an unrelated conversation I was talking to my wife, who is a nurse, and the topic came to pursed lip breathing. It relates to getting out "stale air" and I think adds to the discussion so I will drag up this older thread.

Here is a link to help explain:   http://www.mothernature.com/Library/Boo … /19/82.cfm

Pursed lips provide a little resistance that maintains air pressure in airways. "That keeps the airways from collapsing before air has left the lungs, which can happen in people with emphysema," says Dr. Wenzel. "That's what traps stale air in the lungs and makes it even harder to breathe."  --- Copied from the last paragraph in the link above.


To me it sounds like proper posture and shaku breathing is conducive to emptying out the lungs and getting as full of a breath when playing as possible.

Matt

Sound and Chakras

The Crown chakra resonates to pitch B
The Brow chakra resonates to pitch A
The Throat chakra resonates to pitch G
The Heart chakra resonates to pitch F
The Solar Plexus chakra resonates to pitch E
The Sacral chakra resonates to pitch D
The Base chakra resonates to pitch C

From 'Healing with the Chakra Energy System' - John R. Cross

Sounds a tad too convenient to me and nicely based on the C Major scale (or modal). Maybe that's so that even the beginner player can heal themselves

I didn't want to sound more expert than I am,  but rather than pitches I think the "sounds" equate more to different locks, So Ssss (lungs) is a lock in the lips\teeth\tongue-tip (and the only one I've actually been taught to use). The others I have written for use with "the four directions" exercise are:
FU: Kidneys
SHU: Liver
HA: Heart
HU: Spleen
SHI: Solar Plexus

I interpret this as moving the lock further back along the path of the breath. I've seen so many different chakra systems (positions\numbers), that I don't really follow any.
I've experimented enough to know how making these sounds feels TO ME - but I'm loath to actually use them in a sustained "effortfull" way without supervision (See previous post!)
I've was always struck by the way that the same  4 directions set of movements can be used in completely different ways depending on context.
I'd like to get more shakuhachi lessons than I do, but circumstances are not good at the moment - But I think I'm less likely to "do myself an injury" with long tones, than microcosmic orbits.

Truism - books can't teach. only remind of what you already know.

Anyone else listening for "one wiser than all the sages"?

edosan wrote:

Jeez, who knew that the Ji-gnashi thread could transmogrify itself into the Qi-gnashi thread? 

HATEMONGER!

Lodro wrote:

Sound and Chakras

The Crown chakra resonates to pitch B
The Brow chakra resonates to pitch A
The Throat chakra resonates to pitch G
The Heart chakra resonates to pitch F
The Solar Plexus chakra resonates to pitch E
The Sacral chakra resonates to pitch D
The Base chakra resonates to pitch C

From 'Healing with the Chakra Energy System' - John R. Cross

Sounds a tad too convenient to me and nicely based on the C Major scale (or modal). Maybe that's so that even the beginner player can heal themselves

I find it hard to believe that the chakras want to follow western equal tempered scales. Anyway who says that the chakras in different people resonate at the same frequency?

Doubtful.