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#1 2009-11-18 10:47:39

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Lorka wrote:

Hey Kiku,

Nex time you talk to Okuda, you should implore him to make a high quality copy of ALL of his 60 honkyoku and to write out the notation.  This would be of great historical importance and would help preserve what he has started.  Of course, his work survives through tramission to his students, but this would be another way of preserving his work.   Even if he never made these recordings available they would still be worth doing.  Just an idea.

I just spoke to Okuda who says regarding recording his repertoire: Any time when the opportunity is there!
I will have a think about where and how to do this.
Okuda also asked me to pass his regards to everybody on the forum! smile


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#2 2009-11-18 13:01:49

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Hi Kiku,

That's great.  I'm glad he was receptive to the idea.  It really would be a good way to document and preserve the Zensabo lineage.  It would also be a way of preserving Okuda himself (someone I would very much like to meet some day).

You mentioned before that he was a meticulous note taker and had composed scores for the honkyoku.  This got me thinking about something you've probably already thought about, but I will mention it anyways...

If he did go ahead and do a series of recordings that spanned the whole 60 pieces, then why not make a 5 or 6 disk set (released either all at once, or incrementally) that also includes liner notes discussing the meaning of the pieces and an actual notation booklet with the scores in Okuda's hand.  To my mind, that would be a pretty amazing thing.  I bet that lots of people would be very interested in getting their paws on such a gem.  I, for one, certainly would be. 

Having access to such a resource would be of tremedous help to present and future students.  I imagine that the costs incurred by making such a thing would easily be covered by the sales it would make.  The main thing would be that entire repertoire would be preserved.  To me that is exciting stuff. 

All of this may be a big process, but I think it would be worthwhile on so many levels.


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#3 2009-11-18 13:52:33

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Lorka wrote:

All of this may be a big process, but I think it would be worthwhile on so many levels.

Lorka wrote:

All of this may be a big process, but I think it would be worthwhile on so many levels.

Good idea. Now you just have to do it.

It's not as big an operation as it seems. Recording is very cheap. You could do it for free if you have a good recorder and a few mics.

Mastering costs only a few hundred dollars nowadays, although the way Okuda plays..........there are a lot of dynamics there, difficult to master. Nevertheless doable.

Pressing 5 or 6 CD's is relatively cheap, costs less than a dollar a unit.

Album cover design. Some of our www.shakuhachiforum.com photoshop wizards would probably donate their time. Maybe split up the tasks between 3 or 4 of our geniuses. You might end up with bizarre stuff like that which appears on the forum but it would look good.

The booklet. Once Okuda has assembled the notation and one or two of his ambitious Ph.D. type students write the explanations, we can just post them on a website and give passwords to the people who pay for the CD's. Then they can print out the notation and the explanations which saves on printing costs.

For that matter the whole project could be digital only with pdf's and mp3's. However I'd rather see the physical CD box set with the notation and explanations as a download, because there will be plenty of sales to people who want to listen to CD's but don't need the notation or care about the explanations.

OK there's your plan. I'll be happy to do it on Thylacine Records once you get all that stuff organized! Rock on!


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#4 2009-11-18 14:07:57

ABRAXAS
Member
Registered: 2009-01-17
Posts: 353

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Yes!

I'd even be happy with simple "basement tapes" of bootleg-quality, but a properly produced set of Okuda's repertoire (and improvisations?) would be excellent! Especially with notation, commentary, and it would be great if Okuda wrote or gave an interview really going into his background, learning processes in self-teaching, creative processess, and his philosophy of playing jinashi shakuhachi.

I hope this project manifests.


"Shakuhachi music stirs up both gods and demons." -- Ikkyu.

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#5 2009-11-18 14:09:29

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

ABRAXAS wrote:

I hope this project manifests.

See topic heading. He's on it!


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#6 2009-11-18 14:10:26

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Lorka wrote:

If he did go ahead and do a series of recordings that spanned the whole 60 pieces, then why not make a 5 or 6 disk set (released either all at once, or incrementally) that also includes liner notes discussing the meaning of the pieces and an actual notation booklet with the scores in Okuda's hand.

Yeah, I did think about it... and it is a very good plan!
But I found that releasing a CD was difficult. We recorded an amazing CD of Okuda in 2005, which we have still not managed to release...

Tairaku wrote:

OK there's your plan. I'll be happy to do it on Thylacine Records once you get all that stuff organized! Rock on!

Here we go! It might not be such a bad idea!
And what about distribution? How is that to be done?

I like your idea about the notation online to be downloaded. I'd have to suggest it softly to him.

Last edited by Kiku Day (2009-11-18 14:11:50)


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#7 2009-11-18 14:18:02

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Kiku Day wrote:

But I found that releasing a CD was difficult. We recorded an amazing CD of Okuda in 2005, which we have still not managed to release....

Send me the sound files, maybe I'll put it out on Thylacine. Or we could just do that as the start of the project.

Kiku Day wrote:

[
Here we go! It might not be such a bad idea!
And what about distribution? How is that to be done?.

CD Baby is pretty good and they get it on iTunes and all the other stuff.

But first we will threaten and cajole the members of www.shakuhachiforum.com into committing to purchase. wink

Kiku Day wrote:

I like your idea about the notation online to be downloaded. I'd have to suggest it softly to him.

From my limited experience with him........I don't think the notation is of much use unless you are also getting lessons. The fingerings are too complicated without seeing how it's actually done.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#8 2009-11-18 14:23:43

ABRAXAS
Member
Registered: 2009-01-17
Posts: 353

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Tairaku wrote:

But first we will threaten and cajole the members of www.shakuhachiforum.com into committing to purchase. wink

Call me committed. wink

From my limited experience with him........I don't think the notation is of much use unless you are also getting lessons. The fingerings are too complicated without seeing how it's actually done.

DVD!


"Shakuhachi music stirs up both gods and demons." -- Ikkyu.

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#9 2009-11-18 14:25:39

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Sounds great. The only thing I would caution, though, is that recording Okuda's sound WELL would not be easy -- many decisions to be made in terms of room, mic choice, placement etc. An experienced engineer would be useful.

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#10 2009-11-18 14:31:11

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

nyokai wrote:

Sounds great. The only thing I would caution, though, is that recording Okuda's sound WELL would not be easy -- many decisions to be made in terms of room, mic choice, placement etc. An experienced engineer would be useful.

Know any? wink

Ok Lorka is doing the general organization, Kiku writing Ph.D. style booklet, Phil recording it. Who's doing the cover design?


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#11 2009-11-18 14:39:42

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

And Brian's paying everyone up front!

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#12 2009-11-18 14:40:01

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Tairaku wrote:

Who's doing the cover design?

I'll volunteer!

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#13 2009-11-18 14:42:11

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

See how easy that was?


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#14 2009-11-18 15:07:21

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Ok, this is great! Who should have thought it was this easy!
When we did the still unreleased recording of Okuda last time we used Henry Kaiser's favourite engineer at Fantasy Records in Berkley. I think he did a decent job. I may send a few of you the recordings so you can hear and let me know what you think.
I will ask Josh (in California - not our Josh here) if he will give you (Tairaku) the sound files from 2005.
Good! We've got everybody delegated a job! Excellent job, Lorka, Tairaku and co. smile


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#15 2009-11-18 15:47:30

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Hey All,

I was a little shocked to see such discussion sparked (and  the title of the post!!).  I'm also quite thrilled that the suggestion was recieved so well.  I blushed a little after reading.

I work as an editor/archival researcher for a book project funded by McGill University.  I just mention that in case I can be of help in those sorts of areas (i.e. editing or research).  I am, in fact, happy to help in any way possible.

I like Brian's idea of a dowloadable pdf notation for those who want the scores, but only as a download.  These are good, as you can just print out what you wish to work on, and then you're good to go.  I do, however, think that a good quality book would be nice too.  The option for both would be nice and I think many people would opt for both.  If one purchased the book, the pdf ought to come with it for free as an added bonus. 

If Okuda has made playing instructions or commentaries about specific pieces then those could be included.  Anything that adds additional layers or meaning is a good thing.  Knowing the background of pieces, or their meaning within the repertoire, helps to give us a broader understanding that transcends the actual score itself.  This kind of content is usually provided by a teacher, but codifying it in text (as much as this is possible) is a good thing.

Lots to think about now.

Last edited by Lorka (2009-11-18 15:51:37)


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#16 2009-11-18 16:05:59

Yuusui
Member
From: Minneapolis
Registered: 2008-04-30
Posts: 61
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

I would be happy to throw in any additional design assistance that my be required. I have done a fair amount of book design including stuff that got me nominated for the World Fantasy Award one year.


http://yuusui.wordpress.com/

"Sit in zazen as if engaged in the fight for your very life!" Dogen

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#17 2009-11-25 02:01:26

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Lorka and everybody else,
Now we really do need all your talents. Okuda wants to do it!
I have the feeling we should record him at his studio at his home (if that does not show to be too noisy). So, anyone with serious recording talents in Japan?

Last edited by Kiku Day (2009-11-25 02:02:22)


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#18 2009-11-25 02:21:50

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Yep, what are we waiting for? Who wants to invest in this project? We have talent now we need some $$$$$$$.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#19 2009-11-25 02:22:27

Jam
Member
From: Oxford, England
Registered: 2009-10-02
Posts: 257

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

How exciting!

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#20 2009-11-25 02:24:20

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Tairaku wrote:

Yep, what are we waiting for? Who wants to invest in this project? We have talent now we need some $$$$$$$.

We need to find a patron somewhere. Maybe some rock-star would be interested? Ya think?


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#21 2009-11-25 04:43:02

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

edosan wrote:

Tairaku wrote:

Yep, what are we waiting for? Who wants to invest in this project? We have talent now we need some $$$$$$$.

We need to find a patron somewhere. Maybe some rock-star would be interested? Ya think?

Yeah, but I don't know if Ronnie has any extra $$$$$$ laying around.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#22 2009-11-25 19:57:14

Matt Lyon
Member
From: North Eastern Oregon
Registered: 2009-06-30
Posts: 92

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Being totally ignorant regarding costs... How much are we talking?

I wonder if there is enough people interested to donate small amounts to get it done (I know I am). It would be an interesting test to see it the shakuhachi community could begin buying into itself to help create and preserve.

I also think that it would be a very positive aspect of this message board and one that it could easily step into as we are seeing right now. If everything works out well with this endeavor I am excited to see where it could go with a little bit of organization and a couple of goals.

Matt

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#23 2009-11-26 03:42:12

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

Matt Lyon wrote:

Being totally ignorant regarding costs... How much are we talking?

I wonder if there is enough people interested to donate small amounts to get it done (I know I am). It would be an interesting test to see it the shakuhachi community could begin buying into itself to help create and preserve.

I also think that it would be a very positive aspect of this message board and one that it could easily step into as we are seeing right now. If everything works out well with this endeavor I am excited to see where it could go with a little bit of organization and a couple of goals.

Matt

I must admit, I don't know the cost really either. It depends on the engineer - I suppose + the cost of studio hire if Okuda's studio proves to be too noisy.
At the moment since we seem to have quite some volunteers, including a label - it is mainly the cost of recording and mastering we need to find and cover. I suppose the job of mastering needs to be done by one person so there is unity of the sound all way through. In that case it is a lot of work and we can't expect that to be done totally by a volunteer (my guess). But the mastering doesn't have to be done any particular place on earth, so if anyone would like to do this job... let us know. smile

Matt, your idea of collecting money is a very good one! And if this project is successful, we can do recordings of other hidden shakuhachi treasures in the future - as you hinted at.
If we are doing this kind of donation collecting, we need to have a treasurer, a bank account and a way of paying into this account that is easy to do. It might be a good idea on top of applying for grants to Japanese funding organisations.

I will think more about it during my weekend trip to Berlin.
Have a great weekend! smile


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#24 2009-11-26 11:13:33

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

if he comes Boston i can record him for free (my co-workers have great equipment)

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#25 2009-11-26 11:13:43

shaman141
Member
From: Montreal, QC.
Registered: 2006-02-02
Posts: 154
Website

Re: Lorka is spearheading the Okuda Box Set.

This is exciting stuff! I would donate as well.


Find your voice and express yourself, that's the point.

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