Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

I will test it tomorrow!  Too drunk to spill sake now

Tairaku wrote:

Chris Moran wrote:

Is there a new copy technology that holds the toner ink firmly to the paper so it doesn't run ... say, if you just happened to spill a bottle of saké on it?

Not funny..........I just played at the Royal Institute of Architects and one of the architectural KNOBS spilled red wine on my much discussed super expensive Jin Nyodo notation!

Is he is now wearing his privates around his neck?

Hi Matt,

I think that's a pretty good idea.  Actually, I am very happy with lots of the ideas spawned by this thread.

Hello Lorka,   Just a thought, but if we took an informal poll of people who would be committed buyers of the set in whatever form is settled on,    and approx.  assumed for now the general number of $100.00 USD to be a nice round and possible price for maximum sales ,   you could get an idea of money possibly available for the project.      This would also help in analyzing the the cost needed to stay in this price range,  whether or not to save on the printed material and booklet , or to put everything into the recording session and we all ( buyers ) pdf on our own .  I personally would rather have the highest quality recording possible and print all the rest on my own at my own cost.     The biggest obstacle I see to this project is who would have the time and access to Okuda Sensei to do all the pre-mentioned histories and explanations of his works?   I see that as a huge time consuming thesis that actually we need to pay someone to do.      Another thought is we take up a second collection of money later and with committed pre-orders buy all the printed material and pay the person for their time.     So Calling UP ALL FORUM MEMBERS interested!!!!!!!!!    Please pre order now, whether or not we accomplish our agenda,  and assume $100.00 for now,   and also list the most you would possibly pay for the set.                                                                                                                                                        1.      MRWUWU    $100.00,   will pay up to $200.00 if pressed dearly                                                         2.James Nyman mentioned $100.00 in previous post?                                                                                 3.Matt Lyon, can you  gather up  $100 bucks in about a year from now? I heard you are poor student.                                                                                                                                                      So my theory is if you get 30 people to seriously commit, plus or minus the renegers,   and hopefully more plus purchasers by non forum members from around the world, that gives us $3,000.00 USD and let's say another one grand from the outside world.     With 4000 bucks I think that buys very tight or barely enough studio time for Okuda Sensei to do 60 honkyoku or pieces unless he can perform each piece perfectly in one take.   Tairaku mentioned studio time in Japan is even more expensive than ours.         So please criticize my reasoning, and unless Kiki applies for grant money as this project could work as a ethnomusical treasure,    I think we may not raise enough to fulfill this collaborative project.

I operate in a little different realm so please excuse me possibly being off base here but has anybody considered that Okuda might want to be paid for working his ass off? Who will "own" this project? Okuda? What is in this for him? Maybe posterity is enough for him. He would have to decide. It's kind of a long running beef with me. We'll pay the studio, we'll pay the manufacturer, we'll pay the scholar who writes the accompanying literature but no pay for Okuda? That sucks folks. Why do people think musicians should work for free? If I'm missing something here please straighten me out.

Last edited by Jim Thompson (2009-12-08 01:01:00)

Brian,
      Thanks for taking time to explain. Your expertise and experience in these matters is appreciated. It sounds like all of the proper considerations are being taken. I'll throw in a hundred bucks to an exciting project.
      This may sound kind of weird but in a way I'm kind of glad there is not much money in Shakuhachi. No big money to be made keeps out certain elements.  Every body involved with shakuhachi is involved because they love the instrument and the music. There really isn't much more reason to be involved. That's pretty cool!

Jim Thompson wrote:

. It sounds like all of the proper considerations are being taken. I'll throw in a hundred bucks to an exciting project.

No proper considerations have been taken as of yet. So far it's in the discussion stage. I have only explained what I think would be the proper way to do things.

First Lorka and the other Okuda students need to get things going in terms of capital. Then enlist support from the rank and file. Once the money is raised, get Okuda on board. After all that is accomplished the pros can step in and finish the project and make sure it achieves a proper release and some distribution.

Knowing Okuda the best way to record it would be to get him one of those digital stereo recorders Ken has and let him record at his leisure. No need to waste a fortune on a recording studio. Reverb and other processing can be added at the mastering stage. He could even take the little recorder around and record in different places.

CD's can be pressed properly in a minimum order of 500 copies. But if it's a 7-10 CD set or whatever that's a lot of CD's, each one costs at least $1. Plus the package.

I think the best model would be donations (of $$$$$$ and/or expertise) with everybody getting return on their investment in the form of CD's.

Notation should be separate because I don't think it's all that useful without lessons and explanations anyway. His notation is idiosyncratic.

I think the idea of giving him a recorder and letting him do it himself in his own time is a stellar idea. I think the end product would be better because he would have total control. He would have more freedom to do it until he thought it was best. If you put him in a studio, he would pretty much have to accept what he was able to do that day.

Last edited by Jim Thompson (2009-12-08 11:00:57)

Hi there.

I don't think we should under-estimate the importance of a real professional recording. I know that recording equipment today is amazing.... but this really subtle and nuanced way of playing shakuhachi - I think we need more mics and someone professional to set them up.
A sound engineer, who is presently in Japan, saw this thread has volunteered to at least test out how it would be to record Okuda at home (and perhaps he will do the recording).
We might have to do recording sessions at night - but that is in my world quite normal to do so. For example many of Frank Denyer's pieces played by Iwamoto have been recorded at Dartington Hall in the middle of the night.
I would really like to see someone with a good sense of what is needed to pick up all the wonderful overtones, whistle sounds etc record Okuda. If we can't get that.... we can use the self-recording as a second solution. But I don't think that should be our first plan. Remember also Nyokai warned us not to under-estimate the difficulty of making a good recording. I actually agree with that.

Regarding the price of the CDs. If we can gather enough money to cover the initial expenses, to press CDs is really cheap. And as long as we don't make the CDs in Japan and use a Japanese label - the CD price should be able to be kept at what we regard as a good and reasonable price.
The part I don't know much about is the price of the booklet. Anyone experienced in this kind of world? Although download etc is a good idea, I'd like to look into how much it would cost to make a booklet. I will ask around as well. Good night!

Lorka wrote:

The next question is, how much will each one cost.  Around $20 per CD seems a price that is fair both the artist and the buyer.  This is just a round number though.  One option might also be to give a discount to those who buy the full set at once.  This way, the buyer gets a discount, and the seller gets more units sold at once.

I thought the idea was to issue it as a box set. If you have each one issued sequentially you'll sell a lot of the first one and then less and less of each after that. That makes it difficult to commit to pressing 1000 or 500 or whatever.

Kiku Day wrote:

Okuda should own the project for sure. Once the expenses have been paid... he will get the money - well share it with the label as Tairaku says.

Personally I don't understand why anybody needs a record label anymore.......put stuff out on your own label. But if you want to go with a label do a 50/50 split after agreed expenses and sign a limited time license (3, 5 or 7 years depending upon the advance and other factors).

The problem I see looming with this project is that in the end suppose there are 500 or 1000 of these box sets. They have to be manufactured somewhere and then shipped to:

Japan-for Okuda and his students/fans

USA-fans

Canada-Okuda cabal there.

EU-Okuda students and fans there

Oz-maybe not because I'm the only one here who knows about him.

It will be a trick to ship to that many spots without running into customs BS.

I know a company here who gets their stuff pressed in China and will have it delivered to multiple destinations.  I'll talk to them. But later in the process.

Hi! Matt,   Sorry to remember you as a student,  I just clearly remembered the time payment plan and wrongly assumed the rest.       I just don't know who would have the time to do all the paperwork and reminders to pay,   but worst of all the people who are unable to finish their payment in full and the possible ensuing mess,  meaning not enough collected monies to fulfill the project.