Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

ArchAngel · 2010-03-09 21:37:53

As I am new to the shakuhachi universe, I would like some suggestions as to a "required listening" list of recordings for the shakuhachi. This list would hopefully include some big names and some unknowns doing standard, well-loved pieces, and doing them well. Mostly I'm interested in solo work, but ensembles and group pieces appeal to me also.

I know that I'm asking for an absolute deluge of information, so I'll try to sort it out. Thanks for introducing a relative n00b to the scene.

Last edited by ArchAngel (2010-03-09 21:38:34)

ArchAngel · 2010-03-09 21:59:15

I just found the recording index. NO idea how I didn't scroll all the way down the main page. :sheepish:

edosan · 2010-03-09 22:43:11

ArchAngel wrote:
I just found the recording index. NO idea how I didn't scroll all the way down the main page. :sheepish:

tsk, tsk, tsk

Moran from Planet X · 2010-03-10 00:05:43

First and utterly free: great old historical recordings --

Vintage 78rpm shakuhachi recordings: http://www.sepia.dti.ne.jp/shakuhachi/

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You Tube Musts (also free):

Yamaguchi Goro: Sokaku Reibo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXfel_lxiic

Tadashi Tajima, Shakuhachi Flute, Osaka, Japan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li4jHg7CbGc

Tadashi TAJIMA - flauta Shakuhachi (Daha): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR5-geVmQlI

Kinpu Ryu Shirabe by John Singer on a 19th centruy 2.1 komuso shakuhachi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHAhlja3RkI

Tsuru No Koe by John Singer on Araki Chikuo 1.8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYPJFa2vhBU

Shakuhachi: Sanya by James Nyoraku Schlefer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY1EMwDeaBw

Shakuhachi & shamisen: Meikyo (James Nyoraku Schlefer and Yoko Reikano Kiumra) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qg4pOW3Pn8

Michael Chikuzen Gould Oct 17th 2007 "Koku": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJSaV3j-Kwk

Michael Chikuzen Gould "Sagariha": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUilmluD5Pc

Jeff Peterson & Riley Lee (Maika`i ka Makani O Kohala): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRZsmgUQjlA

Shakuhachi Solo by Al Ramos - 12/21/2005: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je7SsJ1AtJ0

Brian Tairaku Ritchie and Kiku Day - Kyorei : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c1QMcqmkTY

Ronnie Nyogetsu Reishin Seldin - Jinbo Sanya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4HXTEOR4Jc

Horst Xenmeister and Ricebag dialogue about the true nature of shakuhachi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvzVwLFf984

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DVD

Shakuhachi Master Riley Lee in Concert (amazon.com, shakuhachi.com, komuso.com)

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Shakuhachi CD Must Hear/Must Have (primarily honkyoku):

1. Koku by Keisuke Zenyoji
Komuso shakuhachi player, Keisuke Zenyoji. 1.Nezasaha Kimpu-ryu Matsukaze 2.Kyoto Myoanji Murasaki Reiho 3.Echigo Myoanji Sanya 4.Icchoken Banshiki 5.Futaiken Sanya 6.Fudaiji Koku

also: 'Mukaiji' and/or 'Tsuruno Sugomori'

Zenyogi is about as close to the playing of the legendary collector and performer Jin Nyodo as you are likely to find on CD (not just my own assessment). (Jin Nyodo recordings are only available in a complete 6-CD set at about $250. The recordings are low-quality made in a Japanese living room. Save the Jin Nyodo set as a decision later in your shakuhachi appreciation career.)

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2. Yokoyama Katsuya JAPAN - THE ART OF THE SHAKUHACHI (with 3 duets with student YOSHIKAZU IWAMOTO) (shakuhachi.com)

also: ZEN - CLASSICAL SHAKUHACHI MASTERWORKS (2CD set) (shakuhachi.com)

also: SHAKUHACHI KOTEN HONKYOKU-VOL. 1 and VOL. 2 (all 1.8 shakuhachi) (shakuhachi.com)

also: Katsuya Yokoyama Recital '84 Double CD (Mejiro)

Yokoyama's best known students:

YOSHIKAZU IWAMOTO - Any one or all of the following CDs: THE SPIRIT OF SILENCE / THE SPIRIT OF WIND / THE SPIRIT OF DUSK (shakuhachi.com or downloads from emusic.com)

Tadashi Tajima -- Shingetsu (Amazon)

Kakizakai Kauro -KOTEN SHAKUHACHII HONKYOKU-Vol. 2.

Michael Chikuzen Gould - Shakuhachi: Bosatsu, Ukigumo, and Tamuke

Alcvin Ryuzen Ramos - ZEN SHAKUHACHI Vol. 2 (Dokoku-Yokuyama repertoire on jinashi and hocciku)

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3. YAMAGUCHI GORO - A BELL RINGING IN THE EMPTY SKY (amazon.conm, shakuhachi.com). Any album with or by Yamaguchi Goro is worth buying. (The large published sets of his ensemble --sankyoku-- work and his complete Kinko honkoku are in the hundreds of dollars and may be for later consideration.) (shakuhachi.com or Amazon; Mejiro for the expensive sets)

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4. Musoshoku Muchoon by Watazumi-do -
Digital live recordings from 1974: Honshirabe, Shingetsu, Tamuke, Shishi, Tsuru no Sugomori, Kyorei, Koku, Koro Sugagaki, Daiotsugaeshi, Sagari nami, Kaze, Matsukaze. (The SOKINRANCO compact disk is probably a better introduction to Watazumi but it is out of print). Watazumidoso Roshi is a contoversial shakuhachi master who developed his own renditions of ancient Myoan Shinpo Ryu music ($30+ each from Mejiro)

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5. Myoan 37-sei Tanikita Muchiku No.1 / No.2 / No.3 -- Cassette tapes (only) of the 37th abbot of Myoanji Temple recorded in an informal non-studio environment in early 1950s. Excellent example of pre-Western influenced Japanese shakuhachi music of the Meian Taizan Ha (Myoan Taizan Ha). Recording quality is _almost_ as sketchy as the Jin Nyodo CD-set. (cassette tapes are $30+ each from Mejiro)

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6. Yamamoto Hozan -- If you can find a CD of Hozan playing traditional Tozan music get it. I can't find any traditional single CDs of his work. It looks like it is all in large and expensive anthologies. The jazz recordings he has made are wonderful, but not essential.

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7. MITSUHASHI KIFU -- THE ART OF THE SHAKUHACHI vol 1 and/or 2 (shakuhachi.com) - a student of Jin Nyodo with a big, distinctive virtuoso sound. (Did a lot of jazz styled recordings as well.)

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8. NISHIMURA KOKU: KYOTAKU ($32.50 from shakuhachi.com)
Honkyoku performed long kyotaku flutes. Taught by a Japanese Komuso monk named Kyochiku Tani. Unique, pure and rare music.

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9. AOKI REIBO II - Living National Treasures 6: Shakuhachi ($52.99 from Amazon. One CD.) One of the shakuhachi royals. Kinko school. Forceful, masculine playing. "The Earl Bostic of the Shakuhachi."

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10. TOKUYAMA TAKASHI HI KYOKU and/or KUMOI - Bare-bones recordings and renditions of rare shakuhachi music that Tokuyama has collected over many years. Tokuyama has published sheet music for his recordings. (shakuhachi.com)

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11. KURAHASHI YOSHIO - AKI NO YUGURE (AUTUMN DUSK) (shakuhachi.com). Kinko shakuhachi. An internationally traveling teacher.

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12. RILEY LEE - BAMBOO GRASS (shakuhachi.com)
Honkyoku from the Nesasaha (Bamboo Grass Sect), active last century in Aomori, an area of northern Japan. Dr. Lee is a student of Sakai Chikuho II and Yokoyama Katsuya. Another internationally traveling teacher. (shakuhachi.com)

also: Empty Sky (shakuhachi.com)

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13. JOHN SINGER - ZEN MUSIC WITH ANCIENT SHAKUHACHI [Double Album] ($25 from shakuhachi.com)
Shakuhachi Koten and Kinko-ryu honkyoku played on rare historical instruments. (Singer is a student of Yamaguchi Goro and Inuoe Shigeshi. John collects and frequently performs on vintage Edo and Meiji Period shakuhachi.)

also see: Kokan Shakuhachi 1 Color of Tone by Satoshi Shimura (Honkyoku recorded on ancient shakuhachi from Japanese museums). (Mejiro)

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14. CHRISTOPHER YOHMEI BLASDEL: HEART OF BAMBOO with Sam Hamill & Elizabeth Falconer
Poetry and music in the zen tradition. (Blasdel is the Author of Single Tone, A Personal Journey into Shakuhachi Music). (shakuhachi.com)

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15. Japanese Tradition Music: Noh/Biwa/Shakuachi: 1941 Recordings of the Kokusai Bunka Shin (with a few very fine vintage 1941 recordings of shakuhachi, including Nyozan, taken directly from 78s, so they are noisy.) (amazon.com)

Last edited by Chris Moran (2010-03-24 23:00:47)

radi0gnome · 2010-03-10 04:46:55

I'm surprised no one mentioned this one http://okudaatsuya.com/sound_honte.html it's a classic CD and put up there for free listening.

I stumbled onto this one recently, try all 12. It's folk music but with very high level playing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24I16mf61YI

purehappiness · 2010-03-10 06:04:49

Wow. I should have asked about this stuff too. Tonight should be a good night to watch youtube.

ArchAngel · 2010-03-10 08:18:06

edosan wrote:
ArchAngel wrote:
I just found the recording index. NO idea how I didn't scroll all the way down the main page. :sheepish:
tsk, tsk, tsk

*sigh* I know. My, uhm, mouse doesn't, uhm, scroll down that far! *insert other apologetic excuse here*

geni · 2010-03-10 12:30:51

thanks Chris! Amazing list!

Moran from Planet X · 2010-03-11 18:53:48

geni wrote:
thanks Chris! Amazing list!

And that was a tough list. Lots of things I left out, mainly because of redundant music (especially true for the Yokoyama-Dokyoku people). I'll probably add Al Ramos' second cd as he plays the repertoire on jinashi and he is one of the few other than Yokoyama himself to record Azuma Jishi.

Records I would include on a list for those with more experience with shakuhachi music a lot of very interesting CDs like:

Monshogodo by Michael Gould and Sebastien Cyr.

Taimu, Ryoanji and Shakuhachi Club NYC by Tairaku

Yoshimura Fuan's CDs from Myoanji (Taizan Ha Meian repertoire recorded circa 1970s)

More Watazumi if it is ever reissued on CD.

Okuda's Zen CD.

Masayugi Koga early recordings if they ever got on CD

etc etc. Lots of stuff I can't think of on the fly.

Then there is also lots of Shinyoku and Gaigaku and Gagaku and Min'yo and Sanyoku that someone else will have to list because I'm totally unfamiliar with those genre.

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Then a footnote on a few CDs I'd like to see available:

Michael Chikusen Gould playing traditional music outside the standard Yokoyama repertoire.

ANYthing by Peter Hill, but again, preferably outside the standard Yokoyama repertoire.

ANYthing by Bill Shozan Schultz (Tozan, Meian, ANY-THING!!!!)

More John Singer playing obscure repertoire on obscure shakuhachi.

DR. RILEY LEE PLAYING THE COMPLETE CHIKUHO REPERTOIRE ON 1.8 (preferably not recorded in "The Time Tunnel")

Kakizakai Kauro playing outside the standard Yokoyama repertoire. (But everyone should at least have his KOTEN SHAKUHACHII HONKYOKU-Vol. 2. It is an utterly sublime concert recording.)

Older traditional solo Tozan shakuhachi music.

Any Nezasa Ha recordings by Nezasa Ha musicians.

Any old recordings of any Myoan (Meian) musicians. Taizan Ha, Myoan Shinpo Ryu, True True Blue Myoan Ryu. whatever.

Last edited by Chris Moran (2010-03-24 18:22:06)

radi0gnome · 2010-03-23 12:02:58

I just checked myspace. A lot of Riley Lee and Alcvin Ramos's album are available streaming for free on their respective official music sites. I'm not sure if it's all, but Alcvin has about three and Riley six. You click on the album tab on the lower right of the myspace music player to get to them.

edosan · 2010-03-23 12:57:17

It should be noted that the six albums by Riley are improvisational, and not traditional shakuhachi music.

Well worth a listen, however, as he's a very creative improviser.

Tairaku 太楽 · 2010-03-24 06:43:08

I agree with most of the suggestions here but I also like the recordings of Etsuzan Fujiyoshi and Shinku Dan.

Moran from Planet X · 2010-03-24 18:41:21

Tairaku wrote:
I agree with most of the suggestions here but I also like the recordings of Etsuzan Fujiyoshi and Shinku Dan.

Yes, I thought of both of them and I like them very much. Maybe for the second list.

This will piss a few people off or maybe just remark on how stupid I am, but ...

I think both artists' styles and versions tend to be on the speculative and creative side in terms of being solidly classified as "traditional honkyoku."

Last edited by Chris Moran (2010-03-24 18:41:51)

Tairaku 太楽 · 2010-03-24 18:49:37

Chris Moran wrote:
Tairaku wrote:
I agree with most of the suggestions here but I also like the recordings of Etsuzan Fujiyoshi and Shinku Dan.
Yes, I thought of both of them and I like them very much. Maybe for the second list.

This will piss a few people off or maybe just remark on how stupid I am, but ...

I think both artists' styles and versions tend to be on the speculative and creative side in terms of being solidly classified as "traditional honkyoku."

It's not stupid.

But it's a thorny topic because we don't really know what the "traditional honkyoku" are or what they sounded like any better than we know what jazz sounded like before Louis Armstrong and the gang started recording. And the historical record around blues and jazz is much better than with Japanese music. We know Kinko is the longest unbroken line, yet we also know Kinko Kurosawa wrote that stuff himself with the influence of the "traditional honkyoku".

Do you think Etsuzan or Shinku are less traditional than Watazumi? Etsuzan presents himself as the legitimate heir of Fuke shakuhachi.

I personally don't care how authentic or inauthentic people are, I'm more interested in how it sounds and if it's "good" or not.

radi0gnome · 2010-03-24 21:24:58

Tairaku wrote:
I personally don't care how authentic or inauthentic people are, I'm more interested in how it sounds and if it's "good" or not.

Yes, but what sounds good to Western ears may not sound good to Japanese ears, and then there are differences of opinions between generations even within the culture of what sounds good. I kind of think it's necessary to take respected players opinions of other players seriously even if those opinions are hard to understand.

In our own culture Kenny G. is a good example, an awful lot of people at the time thought he sounded great, but well-respected jazz musicians were very vocal that they thought his music is an insult to jazz. In retrospect they were proven right, his music wasn't a new direction in jazz but could more aptly described as a dead end. His music now sounds dated already while jazz albums from the '60's, say from Miles Davis or some of the other greats, still sound fresh.

Tairaku 太楽 · 2010-03-24 22:27:36

radi0gnome wrote:
Tairaku wrote:
I personally don't care how authentic or inauthentic people are, I'm more interested in how it sounds and if it's "good" or not.
Yes, but what sounds good to Western ears may not sound good to Japanese ears

If it sounds good to MY ears, it's good. To me. Geez.

Moran from Planet X · 2010-03-24 22:28:32

Tairaku wrote:
... But it's a thorny topic because we don't really know what the "traditional honkyoku" are or what they sounded like any better than we know what jazz sounded like before Louis Armstrong and the gang started recording. And the historical record around blues and jazz is much better than with Japanese music. We know Kinko is the longest unbroken line, yet we also know Kinko Kurosawa wrote that stuff himself with the influence of the "traditional honkyoku".

And Kinko as a style includes a lot of very sophisticated ornaments (of which I know very few proper Japanese terms): grace notes ("atari"), various types of yuri (head vibrato), that pressurized popping thing you do at the end of a phrase particularly in the second register, etc., which make attacking a note or decaying a note sound more polished. This makes me lean toward the idea that Kinko Kurosawa and his heirs were crafting a stage performance music -- as opposed to a temple or suizen music. But that's another topic for further digression ...

Tairaku wrote:
Do you think Etsuzan or Shinku are less traditional than Watazumi?

Not necessarily, but Watazumi Fumon's style really seemed to pop up out of nowhere, as did the meat of some of his repertoire. I tend to think of him as a person who desired most of all to found a spiritual/martial arts-styled school. The fact that he was talented at re-interpreting shakuhachi music and improvising was secondary. (Personally, I think he listened to a lot of Bird, Monk and Miles --and later on Ornette and Trane).

Etsuzan's and Shinku's music sounds like more re-interpretation of what they believed Fuke shakuhachi sounded like. It's extremely pleasant and meditative, but there is a polish, particularly with the yuri and the echo-y acoustical spaces they are recorded in that doesn't sway me. Again, the presentation seems stage-centered to me. It's also my personal prejudice that the less evidence of structure and rhythm in music, the less evidence that the music is derived from a solid oral (or aural) tradition.

Tairaku wrote:
Etsuzan presents himself as the legitimate heir of Fuke shakuhachi.

Self-coronation always makes me a little skeptical. So too those who elevate their immediate, and often deceased, teachers to heights of musical royalty.

Tairaku wrote:
I personally don't care how authentic or inauthentic people are, I'm more interested in how it sounds and if it's "good" or not.

Yes, I think banging our heads too much around objecting to or defending what is "authentic" is probably not healthy; but discussion of style and form and tradition is.

Last edited by Chris Moran (2010-03-24 22:42:16)

edosan · 2010-03-24 22:52:45

Chris Moran wrote:
Yes, I think banging our heads too much around objecting to or defending what is "authentic" is probably not healthy; but discussion of style and form and tradition is.

And....the difference between these two would be............(ie, 'authentic' and 'tradition')?

I mean, isn't EVERYthing we're blabbing about here just somebody's interpretation of somebody else's somethin'?

Moran from Planet X · 2010-03-24 23:04:58

edosan wrote:
Chris Moran wrote:
Yes, I think banging our heads too much around objecting to or defending what is "authentic" is probably not healthy; but discussion of style and form and tradition is.
And....the difference between these two would be............(ie, 'authentic' and 'tradition')?

I mean, isn't EVERYthing we're blabbing about here just somebody's interpretation of somebody else's somethin'?

Absolutely to the last question.

To the first question: "authentic" is a value judgement, "tradition" is a process.

Moran from Planet X · 2010-03-24 23:16:58

But continuing, the terms "suizen," "komuso" and "Fuke" are frequently used to pose a player's music or school more authentic than others, when, as Brian pointed out, we don't really know what is authentic and what is not in shakuhachi music. Too many holes and blind alleys.

And then there is always personal opinion. (almost deleted last sentence for for being too eff-ing cute, but then Ed quoted me.)

Last edited by Chris Moran (2010-03-24 23:43:36)

edosan · 2010-03-24 23:41:33

Chris Moran wrote:
And then there is always personal opinion.

Which is all that really matters anyway, innit.

Moran from Planet X · 2010-03-24 23:49:54

edosan wrote:
Chris Moran wrote:
And then there is always personal opinion.
Which is all that really matters anyway, innit.

Actshully knot.

I do think it is important to discuss, debate, what have you, about claims to authenticity: my school is more real than yours nonsense.

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This edition of Shaku-Commie vs. Shaku-Search-NA卐I to be continued ...

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But wait, there's ...

Looking at my "A" list of CD recommendations (for people who are new to shakuhachi honkyoku) I spotted one recommendation that fell entirely outside of my self-imposed criteria: Christopher Blasdel's HEART OF BAMBOO (it's a poetry record with shakuhachi and koto music). One or two others were on the edge, but such is the risk of list making.

Last edited by Chris Moran (2010-03-25 01:31:41)

Kiku Day · 2010-03-25 04:36:29

We all know that the authenticity debate is a ticking bomb of a discussion....

The problem is that how can a musical tradition be authentic when it is - as Chris writes - a process? At what point do we freeze the tradition and call that the 'right' way of playing and thereby can say it is authentic? Frozen tradition is anyway a dead tradition and recordings are a major point in freezing to death traditions - and at the same time an amazing source to study older forms of playing styles.

In one way I would say that you may be right, Chris when you write that Etsuzan and Dan's music are polished. If looking at the history of shakuhachi - I would assume most of what we play is polished.
The thing is we only know 'polished' music... and how do we know if the music of the komusō were 'polished' or not? Perhaps there were a lot of ornamentation in the music played by komusō monks - for me it is sure that the Japanese have been very sensitive to the way the music moved from one note to another. That is why there are the ornamentation we know in honkyoku... I think.
Personally, I would say the music they play are one aspect of a living tradition. There is always space for changes in a tradition. Just take gagaku. Ask a gagaku musician and he would tell you that this music has sounded like this since the Tang Dynasty! Ha! Most of the music were lost during the war time (13 -15th century) and changed loads of times. Music evolves - music always change - music never stays static.
Anyway, I agree and I really don't understand the use of bathroom-like echo on recordings. Either you hear more sound bouncing back from the walls than the sound coming from the flute... or you just hear reverb added... horrible! Just a personal opinion.

I have now listened to quite some recordings on SP and also recordings done on wax cylinders. Unfortunately, when these early recordings were done it was more trendy to play sankyoku so there is unfortunately not an abundance of honkyoku recordings.

Tairaku 太楽 · 2010-03-25 08:11:01

It's pretty safe to say that nobody plays the way they played 2 or 3 hundred years ago. So we are all "inauthentic". or we're authentic modern players.

I also like the recordings of Sakaguchi Tesshin, he rocks.

madoherty · 2010-03-25 09:32:57

Required listen for me is also Takeo Izumi.

Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

#1 2010-03-09 21:37:53

required listening list?

#2 2010-03-09 21:59:15

Re: required listening list?

#3 2010-03-09 22:43:11

Re: required listening list?

ArchAngel wrote:

#4 2010-03-10 00:05:43

Re: required listening list?

#5 2010-03-10 04:46:55

Re: required listening list?

#6 2010-03-10 06:04:49

Re: required listening list?

#7 2010-03-10 08:18:06

Re: required listening list?

edosan wrote:

ArchAngel wrote:

#8 2010-03-10 12:30:51

Re: required listening list?

#9 2010-03-11 18:53:48

Re: required listening list?

geni wrote:

#10 2010-03-23 12:02:58

Re: required listening list?

#11 2010-03-23 12:57:17

Re: required listening list?

#12 2010-03-24 06:43:08

Re: required listening list?

#13 2010-03-24 18:41:21

Re: required listening list?

Tairaku wrote:

#14 2010-03-24 18:49:37

Re: required listening list?

Chris Moran wrote:

Tairaku wrote:

#15 2010-03-24 21:24:58

Re: required listening list?

Tairaku wrote:

#16 2010-03-24 22:27:36

Re: required listening list?

radi0gnome wrote:

Tairaku wrote:

#17 2010-03-24 22:28:32

Re: required listening list?

Tairaku wrote:

Tairaku wrote:

Tairaku wrote:

Tairaku wrote:

#18 2010-03-24 22:52:45

Re: required listening list?

Chris Moran wrote:

#19 2010-03-24 23:04:58

Re: required listening list?

edosan wrote:

Chris Moran wrote:

#20 2010-03-24 23:16:58

Re: required listening list?

#21 2010-03-24 23:41:33

Re: required listening list?

Chris Moran wrote:

#22 2010-03-24 23:49:54

Re: required listening list?

edosan wrote:

Chris Moran wrote:

#23 2010-03-25 04:36:29

Re: required listening list?

#24 2010-03-25 08:11:01

Re: required listening list?

#25 2010-03-25 09:32:57

Re: required listening list?

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