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  •  » Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

#1 2010-07-21 13:27:23

tddy934
Member
Registered: 2010-05-29
Posts: 10

Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

Hello, I have been shopping around for my first real shakuhachi and I want to get one with a root end.
From my reading, I've found that it should have 7 nodes if it is root end and 5 if it isn't.
Well, in most all of my looking around, I don't find them with 7 nodes, more often they have 8 or 9.
Does this mean they are probably fakes?
-Thanks.

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#2 2010-07-21 13:50:19

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

tddy934 wrote:

Hello, I have been shopping around for my first real shakuhachi and I want to get one with a root end.
From my reading, I've found that it should have 7 nodes if it is root end and 5 if it isn't.
Well, in most all of my looking around, I don't find them with 7 nodes, more often they have 8 or 9.
Does this mean they are probably fakes?
-Thanks.

Seven nodes is an element of the classic Japanese shakuhachi aesthetic, and has nothing to do with the quality of the flute, which could be a dog with seven nodes or splendid with 8 or 9. Some shakuhachi are even made with a node or two near the root end carefully shaved smooth, so as to make them appear to have just seven.

What you need is a shakuhachi that works. Worry about things like the number of nodes down the road apiece....way down.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#3 2010-07-21 14:21:12

Taldaran
Member
From: Everett, Washington-USA
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 232

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

Ive had nice looking 7 node shakuhachi that were not so great, and I have some with more or less that were not esthetically pleasing, but were nice to play with good tone color.

My favorite all purpose shakuhachi are made of wood… (gasp).

Last edited by Taldaran (2010-07-21 16:52:48)


Christopher

“Whoever can see through all fear will always be safe.” Tao Te Ching

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#4 2010-07-21 15:37:07

tddy934
Member
Registered: 2010-05-29
Posts: 10

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

edosan wrote:

tddy934 wrote:

Hello, I have been shopping around for my first real shakuhachi and I want to get one with a root end.
From my reading, I've found that it should have 7 nodes if it is root end and 5 if it isn't.
Well, in most all of my looking around, I don't find them with 7 nodes, more often they have 8 or 9.
Does this mean they are probably fakes?
-Thanks.

Seven nodes is an element of the classic Japanese shakuhachi aesthetic, and has nothing to do with the quality of the flute, which could be a dog with seven nodes or splendid with 8 or 9. Some shakuhachi are even made with a node or two near the root end carefully shaved smooth, so as to make them appear to have just seven.

What you need is a shakuhachi that works. Worry about things like the number of nodes down the road apiece....way down.

Thanks for the reply.
So, from the sound of it, it is okay to have more than 7, is it ok to have less then 7 on a root end piece?

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#5 2010-07-21 16:28:45

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

If you are looking for a reasonable root end Shakuhachi for your first 'real' flute, only going by the number of nodes is not going to tell you that.The reason why flutes are made from root end bamboo is to have a taper, or more correctly, a reverse taper, through the bore., but even having this does not make it an excellent flute.

For you to judge a flute you first need to have learned to blow accordingly well.
Otherwise you really need someone else to assist your judgement, either a teacher you respect or a maker you respect, but perhaps in the longer term you may have to 'kiss a few frogs' !

K.


Kia Kaha !

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#6 2010-07-21 18:39:46

tddy934
Member
Registered: 2010-05-29
Posts: 10

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

Karmajampa wrote:

If you are looking for a reasonable root end Shakuhachi for your first 'real' flute, only going by the number of nodes is not going to tell you that.The reason why flutes are made from root end bamboo is to have a taper, or more correctly, a reverse taper, through the bore., but even having this does not make it an excellent flute.

For you to judge a flute you first need to have learned to blow accordingly well.
Otherwise you really need someone else to assist your judgement, either a teacher you respect or a maker you respect, but perhaps in the longer term you may have to 'kiss a few frogs' !

K.

Well thanks for letting me know that.
I'm aware of the reverse taper, but should it also flair out at the end?
Or for my first good shakuhachi should I just get one without a root end?
I have other good flutes, just not a good shakuhachi, I have a rip off one, but at least with it, I was able to develop the basic embouchure and some sort of breathing technique.
-Thanks for the help.

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#7 2010-07-21 18:54:52

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

No, they don't alwauys flare out, some almost don't have any widerning from the narrow 'choke' point to the end. Tlhis can have a 'darkening influence on the tone, a flare at the end can have a brightening influence, particularly on 'Ro'.

A root end would usually have a good taper but only if the bamboo has aged enough to develop a thick wall.

When looking at the number of nodes, look more particularly at the hole placement between the nodes, that these are 'balanced' between nodes may be a more useful indication of the 'playability' of the flute.

Are you looking at photos or are you able to handle and blow the samples ?

K.


Kia Kaha !

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#8 2010-07-21 21:52:52

Toby
Shakuhachi Scientist
From: out somewhere circling the sun
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 405

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

If you are buying a jiari flute, the internal aspect of the bamboo makes no difference at all, since the bore is constructed out of ji paste. Now if you do decide to get a seven-node flute, you also have to make sure that the bottom ring has 32 root rings ;-)

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#9 2010-07-21 22:48:51

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

Toby wrote:

If you are buying a jiari flute, the internal aspect of the bamboo makes no difference at all, since the bore is constructed out of ji paste. Now if you do decide to get a seven-node flute, you also have to make sure that the bottom ring has 32 root rings ;-)

32 ?

Shouldn't it be divisibble by the number of nodes, i.e. 28 or 35 on a 7 node flute !
32 would apply to an eight node flute.

K.


Kia Kaha !

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#10 2010-07-22 08:36:49

Toby
Shakuhachi Scientist
From: out somewhere circling the sun
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 405

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

I was told by one of the sensei teaching at Meijiro that you should, ideally, have 32 root rings on the lowest node, from a Japanese shakuhachi aesthetic point of view...Did you hear differently?

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#11 2010-07-22 16:18:48

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

I have a deaf ear, it sounds somewhat obsessive.

K.


Kia Kaha !

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#12 2010-07-22 16:23:12

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

I just counted mine (for the first time).  It has 31.  Yes, I was very bored.


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#13 2010-07-25 07:13:17

Toby
Shakuhachi Scientist
From: out somewhere circling the sun
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 405

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

Karmajampa wrote:

I have a deaf ear, it sounds somewhat obsessive.

K.

Traditional shakuhachi making is nothing if not obsessive wink

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#14 2010-07-25 20:04:39

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

Hmmm ......attention to detail I respect.
Obsession I question and keep my distance.

K.


Kia Kaha !

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#15 2010-07-25 22:17:59

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

Lorka wrote:

I just counted mine (for the first time).  It has 31.  Yes, I was very bored.

Huh? Mine has 32. Doesn't it look funny with just 31?





smile


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#16 2010-07-25 23:47:36

Moran from Planet X
Member
From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
Website

Re: Do you need to have 7 nodes in a root end shakuhachi?

... Hey, and while we're at it, these guys make a really nifty bamboo keyboard and mouse and I'll bet you anything that they are jinashi and sound better!

http://www.treehugger.com/ces-sat-bamboo.jpg
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/01 … phones.php


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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