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#1 2010-10-09 15:16:35

HarryHansen
Member
From: Hawaii
Registered: 2010-04-12
Posts: 245
Website

External lacquer

I have heard that heating green bamboo produces a kind of natural resin which is extremely hard, very glossy and lasts almost indefinitely.

I was wondering if anyone has tried using a propane torch to heat green bamboo, and as the resin comes out, wipe it off with a rag, and rub it into an existing shakuhachi..
Seems like a good idea, in theory.

Thoughts?

- HH

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#2 2010-10-09 19:15:50

Itamar Foguel
Member
From: Israel
Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 120
Website

Re: External lacquer

from my own experience in aburanuki (drying bamboo on a heat source) you just wipe the oil, it might make the column a bit more shiny but thats it, its not hard or anything since it dosnt have any thickness. urushi or maybe shellac sounds more like what you are looking for.

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#3 2010-10-10 02:52:10

Toby
Shakuhachi Scientist
From: out somewhere circling the sun
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 405

Re: External lacquer

I've never heard that, and I don't get anything like that either. My experience is like Itamar's. Anyway, the outer skin of the bamboo is extremely tough, no need for any sweeteners...

Toby

Last edited by Toby (2010-10-10 02:53:02)

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#4 2010-10-10 07:07:25

HarryHansen
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From: Hawaii
Registered: 2010-04-12
Posts: 245
Website

Re: External lacquer

I was thinking mainly of the gloss factor.. I'd love a way to try to get a high gloss finish with just bamboo resin..

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#5 2010-10-10 07:41:00

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
Website

Re: External lacquer

Aloha Harry, The oil gums up quickly on the rag.when wiping during aburanuki. It would be difficult to transfer to another piece of bamboo. If you want to keep the skin natural,  try polishing with buffers or with #0000 super fine steel wool by hand. Rub along the length.

Mahalo, Perry


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

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#6 2010-10-10 12:17:19

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: External lacquer

Rottenstone powder and a few drops of oil will also work for gloss. Rub it in, buff with a clean cloth. Repeat indefinitely until satisfied.

Ken

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#7 2010-10-10 17:28:11

HarryHansen
Member
From: Hawaii
Registered: 2010-04-12
Posts: 245
Website

Re: External lacquer

Thanks, that makes more sense. I have some rottenstone.

Perry you answered my question, I was wondering how possible it would be, but I didnt think of it gumming up and being hard to transfer. Also, I reckon, now that I think of it, the flute that I'd be trying to transfer it to would probably need to be heated too. Not a good idea to heat a shakuhachi?

I'll try the steel wool and rottenstone.

- HH

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#8 2010-10-10 17:31:41

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: External lacquer

HarryHansen wrote:

Not a good idea to heat a shakuhachi?

I'll try the steel wool and rottenstone.

- HH

Best thing to do with a shakuhachi is to actually put your valuable time into blowing on it, instead of gilding the already perfectly fine lily...

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#9 2010-10-10 20:14:52

Musgo da Pedra
Member
From: South of Brazil
Registered: 2007-12-02
Posts: 332
Website

Re: External lacquer

When I started on flutemaking world, was said to me that was good to make fire cure on bamboo, and I started to make this (and all the work) in my sleep room (i used propane torch at the time). The water vapor from that went out from bamboo tips (it makes some bubbles and a vapor jet like a kettle with boiling water) and filled the room always catched me by nose (the nice looking finish was also a happy thing, of course) and one day I decided to put this water in a bottle, for two porpouses: 1) try to aply the liquid in other surfaces to try to achive the same gloss and maybe some hardness; 2)use it as perfum. After about 10 pieces I filled a bottle with more or less 100 ml of that water... I never tried to use it to achive gloss at the end, because the perfum was so good that I could not waste a single drop, ehhehe... so it became my perfum (and home aroma) for many years...

I am not sure if that liquid is mostly water or it have some oil in it... maybe if we have enough of this and boil it for sometime it can get more consistent and then be used to some kind of glossy finish... a lot of work indeed, maybe too much to get something that can be easily obtained by other means...

To be honest, some years back I thought that if this liquid could became hard when dried,  it could even be a good varnish for instruments like violin, guitar, and so... mind trips from the wacky backy youth!!!

: {p


Omnia mea mecum porto

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#10 2010-10-10 20:30:07

HarryHansen
Member
From: Hawaii
Registered: 2010-04-12
Posts: 245
Website

Re: External lacquer

Musgo da Pedra wrote:

When I started on flutemaking world, was said to me that was good to make fire cure on bamboo, and I started to make this (and all the work) in my sleep room (i used propane torch at the time). The water vapor from that went out from bamboo tips (it makes some bubbles and a vapor jet like a kettle with boiling water) and filled the room always catched me by nose (the nice looking finish was also a happy thing, of course) and one day I decided to put this water in a bottle, for two porpouses: 1) try to aply the liquid in other surfaces to try to achive the same gloss and maybe some hardness; 2)use it as perfum. After about 10 pieces I filled a bottle with more or less 100 ml of that water... I never tried to use it to achive gloss at the end, because the perfum was so good that I could not waste a single drop, ehhehe... so it became my perfum (and home aroma) for many years...

I am not sure if that liquid is mostly water or it have some oil in it... maybe if we have enough of this and boil it for sometime it can get more consistent and then be used to some kind of glossy finish... a lot of work indeed, maybe too much to get something that can be easily obtained by other means...

To be honest, some years back I thought that if this liquid could became hard when dried,  it could even be a good varnish for instruments like violin, guitar, and so... mind trips from the wacky backy youth!!!

: {p

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
I think green bamboo would yield a lot of water as well as some oil.. probably pre-dried bamboo would be mostly oil when heated.

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#11 2010-10-12 11:20:59

Taldaran
Member
From: Everett, Washington-USA
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 232

Re: External lacquer

Just use some walnut oil- two or three thin coats- wipe off the excess and wait a few days between coats - will not only shine it up, but make a good vapor barrier.

Don't apply to much though at a time. The flute will get gummy.


Christopher

“Whoever can see through all fear will always be safe.” Tao Te Ching

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#12 2010-10-19 22:07:36

Toby
Shakuhachi Scientist
From: out somewhere circling the sun
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 405

Re: External lacquer

Vigorously rubbing a boar's tusk on the surface of the bamboo will bring out a nice shine, especially on the cut parts like the roots and utaguchi face. Just a little trick I learned from the woodcarvers in the Trobriand Islands, which transfers nicely from tropical hardwoods to Japanese bamboo...

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#13 2010-10-19 22:10:36

HarryHansen
Member
From: Hawaii
Registered: 2010-04-12
Posts: 245
Website

Re: External lacquer

Toby wrote:

Vigorously rubbing a boar's tusk on the surface of the bamboo will bring out a nice shine, especially on the cut parts like the roots and utaguchi face. Just a little trick I learned from the woodcarvers in the Trobriand Islands, which transfers nicely from tropical hardwoods to Japanese bamboo...

That's pretty awesome.. never heard of doing this. Where did you find boars tusks though?

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#14 2010-10-20 01:28:18

Mark Angevine
Member
Registered: 2009-06-09
Posts: 26

Re: External lacquer

Plenty of boars on Kauai, Harry. Maybe some on your island,too.


"Open mouth, already a mistake"

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#15 2010-10-20 01:39:24

HarryHansen
Member
From: Hawaii
Registered: 2010-04-12
Posts: 245
Website

Re: External lacquer

Mark Angevine wrote:

Plenty of boars on Kauai, Harry. Maybe some on your island,too.

Oh yeah, that's true. Thanks! For some reason, I thought it had to be a special type of boar.

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#16 2010-10-20 02:47:11

Moran from Planet X
Member
From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
Website

Re: External lacquer

HarryHansen wrote:

... Where did you find boars tusks though?

http://www.hideandfur.com/inventory/5623.jpg

Boars' Tusks -R- Us


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#17 2010-10-20 03:11:18

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: External lacquer

HarryHansen wrote:

Mark Angevine wrote:

Plenty of boars on Kauai, Harry. Maybe some on your island,too.

Oh yeah, that's true. Thanks! For some reason, I thought it had to be a special type of boar.

Nah....I've heard that hippopotamus tusk works every bit as well.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#18 2010-10-20 19:57:01

Toby
Shakuhachi Scientist
From: out somewhere circling the sun
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 405

Re: External lacquer

Not to be boaring, but you can actually use any smooth, hard substance that does not have a sharp edge. When I couldn't find my tusk, I tried with a steel rod and it worked just as well. Since it works by compressing any small irregularities in the surface, it isn't permanent...it's actually kind of like a shoe shine....

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#19 2010-10-20 21:36:14

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: External lacquer

Toby wrote:

Not to be boaring, but you can actually use any smooth, hard substance that does not have a sharp edge. When I couldn't find my tusk, I tried with a steel rod and it worked just as well. Since it works by compressing any small irregularities in the surface, it isn't permanent...it's actually kind of like a shoe shine....

The more polished, and the larger the diameter of the hard object, the better the performance. That's why shiny ivory works well.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#20 2010-10-21 02:05:27

HarryHansen
Member
From: Hawaii
Registered: 2010-04-12
Posts: 245
Website

Re: External lacquer

I'll try it with my mammoth ivory. smile

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#21 2010-10-21 09:05:54

Toby
Shakuhachi Scientist
From: out somewhere circling the sun
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 405

Re: External lacquer

edosan wrote:

Toby wrote:

Not to be boaring, but you can actually use any smooth, hard substance that does not have a sharp edge. When I couldn't find my tusk, I tried with a steel rod and it worked just as well. Since it works by compressing any small irregularities in the surface, it isn't permanent...it's actually kind of like a shoe shine....

The more polished, and the larger the diameter of the hard object, the better the performance. That's why shiny ivory works well.

Yes, but...the larger the diameter, the harder you have to press (since the force is less concentrated) and the more difficult to get into small and tight places. But too sharp and it will start to mark or tear the bamboo.

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#22 2010-10-21 09:50:59

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: External lacquer

Toby wrote:

edosan wrote:

Toby wrote:

Not to be boaring, but you can actually use any smooth, hard substance that does not have a sharp edge. When I couldn't find my tusk, I tried with a steel rod and it worked just as well. Since it works by compressing any small irregularities in the surface, it isn't permanent...it's actually kind of like a shoe shine....

The more polished, and the larger the diameter of the hard object, the better the performance. That's why shiny ivory works well.

Yes, but...the larger the diameter, the harder you have to press (since the force is less concentrated) and the more difficult to get into small and tight places. But too sharp and it will start to mark or tear the bamboo.

Well, I wasn't suggesting baseball diameter; half inch would be dandy...


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#23 2010-10-21 10:37:11

Matt Lyon
Member
From: North Eastern Oregon
Registered: 2009-06-30
Posts: 92

Re: External lacquer

HarryHansen wrote:

I'll try it with my mammoth ivory. smile

Harry,

Do you just happen to have some lying around or do you actually use it in some sort of a craft? If you have a good source for buying it please let me know.

Matt

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