Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

Hi Jeff

I think I arrived at the Shakuhachi season of my life via the native american flute. I love the minor scales, the freedom of expression, the lack of traditionalism and structure that comes with the NAF. I am a maker, and I love the simplicity of minor scale fingerings, and the simplicity of the Shaukuhachi mouthpiece. I make up my own pieces, especially in natural places and inspirde by nature. Having said all that, the Shauhachi is very hard to play well, and I think that learning at least the basics of playing, traditional pieces, rhythyms etc., will help me to maximise the way the instrument can be used to play other things. I do enjoy the Honkyoku music, though it is a bit intense at times. I often blend Honkyoku phrases with other phrases of my own invention - the results sometimes sound good, but I am enjoying the journey, and other people are getting blessed along the way, so I think it's a good path.

So, I am learning some Shakuhachi tradition and discipline, and blending it with other traditions. Like Daiishi says, I can only make as good as I can play, and I want to make well, so I need to play well.

I don't know that I'm a rogue, but neither am I a traditionalist...

It would be good to share music sometime - I can send Mp3 files to your email address if you like.

Cheers

John

philipgelb wrote:

My main interests in playing shakuhachi are in non traditional music. I mostly perform new music with alot of pieces being written for me as well as having written several of my own. I am also very interested in other musical forms on shakuhachi such as jazz, jewish music and free improvisation.

However, to get to this point, i needed a serious understanding of how the shakuhachi works in its traditional contexts.  Without a knowledge of traditional shakuhachi playing, you are missing out on the basic fundamental ideas of why the shakuhachi is designed the way it is. Understanding Japanese theory and scales will give you tremendous insight into how and why the shakuhachi is what it is.  Besides, honkyoku in particular is amazing music on its own and it seems awfully foolish to play an instrument and purposely remain ignorant and unaware of its history.

I have yet to hear a serious shakuhachi player who did not undergo an intensive study of traditional shakuhachi music!  Does anyone know any exceptions?

I agree wholeheartedly with Phil here. Even if your interest is in playing non-traditional music it's advisable to learn traditional Japanese music as well. As far as shakuhachi players who make good non-traditional music without much training, Steve Cohn is very out there in his approach to shakuhachi as an improvisatory tool. But even he has some training.

Hi All,

I'm interested in "free improvisation". I have devoted a great deal of time to the instrument and improvisation as I seek a sound of "my own".

In 1993, Tim Lane, flute professor at the U-W Wisconsin, Eau Claire gave me a 2.0 Shakuhachi. I would listen to Shakuhachi recordings and try to sound like them, but I never could.

So, under the advice of art professor Tiit Raid, also from the U-W Wisonsin, Eau Claire I just started playing Shakuhachi my own way, finding my voice with this instrument. My sound keeps growing and changing all of the time.

Tiit Raid gave me my first good bamboo flute, a Bansuri, back in 1987, and told me to just play, so I did and still do.

I really do not think that Shakuhachi can ever be "Mastered". From where I sit, it seems Shakuhachi is a lifelong task that can never be reached no matter how good you get. For the better you become and the more you know, the less you know and the more you need to learn all at the same time. Is this not so?

The best to you all,
Peter Phippen
www.peterphippen.com

"Accomplish the great task by a series of small acts" - TAO TE CHING

Last edited by Peter Phippen (2006-07-24 22:04:47)

It seems that there is the opinion that honkyoku and other traditional Japanese forms are mostly for the purpose of learning the ropes, from which a pot of gold resulting from personal and individual exploration might be found once the twines of the ropes are well assimilated.  Though this might be the case for some, I disagree with this as an absolute insight.  I suggest that it is possible to spend more than a lifetime delving into the depths of the traditional forms and constantly be amazed.  With that statement made, I would also like to suggest that delving into anything in depth will produce deep aspects of whatever you are delving into as long as you have intent and conviction.  The real question is whether you want to be acknowledged by people who prod the boundries of 'their' tradition with respect to what you do or not.  Sometimes 'in the box' can be 'out of the box'.  Sometimes there are just different boxes or everything can be viewed as 'in the box' by someone who happens to inhabit a box that is more encompassing.
jeff

Sorry edosan.  I wrote that a little after my box evaporated late last night.  One of the problems of spending time on the other side of the world.  There are shards of meaning there though if you care to dig. 
Another question: Are there any non-traditional shakuhachi teachers out there?  And I'm not referring to methods, but rather content.  If so, from what point do you start teaching non-traditional content, and do you encorporate traditional technique?
Yet another nebulous question: Can non-traditionalism only be a solitary pursuit?

A very non-traditional note. I have always played solitary with the didges, Shakuhachi and the NAF. Used to play African drums in large groups. In the next few weekends, I am supposed to get together with a friend of mine who still plays African drums and an electric bass player. We hope to create some interesting stuff, more on the line of rhythmic. We will likely mic the flutes. The didges will stand their ground without. I am most curious to hear the Shakuhachi in that kind of mix. Could prove to be a mind bender.

I guess that qualifies as non-traditional?

BTW: Pepe' Danza plays Shakuhachi with his Afro-Cuban group. He plays Djembe and mixes it up with Shakuhachi and a flute made from an eagle feather. Incredible artist. Traditional or non, Pepe's command of the instrument is spellbinding.

D.J.

Last edited by D.J. (2007-03-02 21:04:06)

kyoreiflutes wrote:

Even great Rock Guitar Gods learn classical guitar first...

Mind naming a few of those?

eB

D.J. wrote:

A very non-traditional note. I have always played solitary with the didges, Shakuhachi and the NAF. Used to play African drums in large groups. In the next few weekends, I am supposed to get together with a friend of mine who still plays African drums and an electric bass player. We hope to create some interesting stuff, more on the line of rhythmic. We will likely mic the flutes. The didges will stand their ground without. I am most curious to hear the Shakuhachi in that kind of mix. Could prove to be a mind bender.

I guess that qualifies as non-traditional?

BTW: Pepe' Danza plays Shakuhachi with his Afro-Cuban group. He plays Djembe and mixes it up with Shakuhachi and a flute made from an eagle feather. Incredible artist. Traditional or non, Pepe's command of the instrument is spellbinding.

D.J.

I really love both the traditional and non traditional usage of the instrument, both expressions are very beautiful to me. I was recently asked to put some shakuhachi in the mix for a fusion band, it really brought the music into a whole different realm and I hope to use it more in these settings.

dstone wrote:

A few "non-traditional" acoustic uses of the shakuhachi that I have heard in performance and enjoyed:

* sustained tinkly/aoelian/whisper tones

Cool. I'm wondering what the aoelian part of the description means though.

dstone wrote:

* ignoring the edge, blowing through the flute with both lips basically inside the flute, sort of didge-style (works best on very wide bore flutes)

Is this with buzzing lips or a wind sound? There's a wind-pop sort of sound you can get on transverse flute by doing that without buzzing. Blow hard and quickly let your tongue stop the air flow for the pop. I think it's called a jet whistle. I saw someone take the head joint off a transverse flute once and play the rest of the flute like a didjeridoo. He called it a didjeriflute. When I tried I couldn't get the buzzing to work in such a thin tube (I've opened up the mouthpiece on most of my American made didjes, I like wide openings). I'm sorry I forget the flute player's name, he was an extremely good professional flute player who played East-Indian music on silver flute. I've tried doing the jet-whistle thing on shakuhachi but didn't like the idea of anything but wind touching the utaguchi, never tried the didjeriflute thing but I wouldn't for the same reason.   

dstone wrote:

* polyphony (e.g. when a harmonic actually joins in but doesn't replace your target note -- something we normally try to avoid)

Umm... I don't really know traditional music, but when they do those finger taps over the holes they get a harmonic for an instant. I thought it was deliberate. You can get and sustain those much more easily than just balancing harmonics by closing the the first one or two bottom holes and opening the next hole up. This sort of helps force the lower harmonic while you bring the higher one in.   

dstone wrote:

* "toneless", but still pitched, blowing (i.e. all "breath", as if you are missing the edge)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. In Gould's improviation for his Yuu endorsement, he gets a nice long wind sound. Is that it?

dstone wrote:

* forcefully smacking holes closed without blowing, just for the multi-pitched percussive sound (also smacking fingertips on the side of the flute for similar effect)

OK, the bamboo is kind of thick to get much on the side of the flute though. Maybe with a mic.

dstone wrote:

* vocalizing through the flute, usually while blowing

Aside from an extended technique, this is really good for your tone. Robert Dick calls it "throat tuning". The theory is that your vocal chords (even when not vocalizing) are part of the acoustical system, so if you vocalize to the same note while playing, you condition your vocal chords to maximize the resonance. I'm not sure if I buy the science behind the theory, but it works. *Try it, you'll like it*. One caveat is that if your already extremely accomplished and already getting the most out of your tone, you of course won't notice much difference. It works best when you're struggling some with getting a good tone.

dstone wrote:

* playing transversely, blowing across a thumb or finger hole

I never heard of that one. It sounds almost too radical

Last edited by radi0gnome (2007-03-03 15:48:56)

Has anyone else noticed this sample Perry Yung had for one of his 2.4 flutes on Ebay? Sounds good to me!

http://www.yungflutes.com/samples/hocchikulive.mp3

I've always played improvisationally.  Only in the last couple of years have I finally gotten my hands on some notation, that being Yoshinobu Taniguchi's big book from Tai Hei.  I used to be critical, to some degree, of what I thought of as a really constricting tradition, in which everyone seemed doomed to always play the same pieces over & over & over.  Now, though, as I've started to work with traditional pieces on my own, I appreciate them like never before.  I love them, and see them as great gifts!  Even though I don't have someone around to guide me first-hand, working with them makes me feel like I'm plugged in to something truly profound.  I feel happy for those who who've gone off to Japan and learned in the traditional manner.

That being said, I still think that creative improvisation is a great place to hang out in its own right, and I do it all the time... always will.  For this ability, I have often looked to the average Mockingbird for inspiration... along with our many talented peers who've recorded their work.

Let me state first that the reflective depth of many contributions on this board impress me very much (I've been to others, namely clarinet/saxophone-related, &, to be frank, it's all an either very reactionist or childish stuff), it's very refreshing & stimulating to read through by far the most posts here. Thank You.
   An instrument always has a past, which isn't identical to that it has a tradition. History teaches nothing, tradition does, a whole waggonload, & the difficulty lies in to munch through all that & yet be able to dischard it all, at the same time, not parallel to it, mind. The shakuhachi's tradition is avantgarde to the extreme, many of the most traditional, in-box techniques sound to the contemporary wonder-wonder-wonderfully far out. It is not non-traditional to play jazz on the shakuhachi, that is just changing one set of chains for another. Nowoadays, in the 21st century, there are enough extra-performers, many experimental compositions & so many ways to tear free from any bonds tradition lays on performance & composition, it's the best of times to go where noone has been before. &, there, meet others, yes. Nowaday's playing isn't about any particular style or scene, it's not about getting trapped, but using Klezmer techniques in a punk-environment, multiphonics on a windinstrument in a Renaissance piece for organ etc etc & what have you.
Markus