Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

Toffe, I have a little experience, but not much, with tung oil and flutes.  I'll tell you what I think I know.

It's not difficult, but there is lots of waiting involved and I'm not sure it really improves the flute significantly.  As a moisture-proof barrier, I think it's good.  Breath condensation clearly beads up in a tung-oiled bore, compared to my raw flutes.  I don't think it would necessarily reduce cracking, and any effect on the flutes' sound was not noticed by me.  I did it for mold protection in one flute, but it's hard to say if it is significantly better than a raw bore.

I applied tung oil to the entire bore by taping up the finger holes and root-end hole and sloshing around a bunch of oil inside it.  (The oil can be poured out and re-used for another flute, if you're thrifty.)  This approach dried to tacky within 48 hours, but then took a very long time (weeks++) to harden.  While in a tacky state, be very careful about running a cloth through it -- the oil will catch lint and fluff (and dust from the room, etc.)  If you use tung oil with drying or other agents added, I think this time can be shortened, but then your flute will smell like petroleum for a while.

Question for you about oiling the outside of the flute...  Bamboo skin doesn't absorb anything very readily (compared to the bore), so do you think you're actually getting anything to soak into the bamboo through the skin? 

I'd like to hear about any substance that can darken/affect the outside surface of a flute.

-Darren.

We might want to request a little In-Service Training from other shakuhachi makers on the forum on how to apply a thin coat of brown urushi to the bore of hocchiku and how to cure it. That seems to be an acceptable alternative to leaving the bore raw and still being able to identify the instrument as a true hocchiku.

That and/or a transparent brown (urushi-like) American lacquer substitute which would take the place of the urushi yet still preserve the traditional look.

I have heard from more than one shakuhachi person that oiling the bore is ill advised.

Last edited by Chris Moran (2006-10-12 04:46:35)

Hi Chris,

Chris Moran wrote:

We might want to request a little In-Service Training from other shakuhachi makers on the forum on how to apply a thin coat of brown urushi to the bore of hocchiku and how to cure it.

I use a long urushi brush I got from Mejiro. It's like a toothbrush made from human hair except that the handle is made from a 30" sliver of bamboo. As Peter mentioned, it should be used as sparingly as possible. I use surgical gloves and usually wear long sleeves and a respirator mask as the fumes from the open tube is enough to cause a rash if it meets open skin. After the urushi is applied, I place the bamboo in a humid box with a cup of water. From what I was told, the ideal humidity level is around 65 - 70 percent.  My humid box is a long Sterilite tub. The fumes can also stick to clothes so I change my cloths afterwards since I wrangle small children these days.

I know a maker who was applying urushi in his kitchen while boiling water for ramen and had to be rushed to the nearest hospital in an ambulance when he suddenly found him self gasping for air.  The rash can be a minor nuisance to some but can be incapacitating for others. Do not mess with Japanese urushi unless you've done your research

That seems to be an acceptable alternative to leaving the bore raw and still being able to identify the instrument as a true hocchiku.

The way it was shown to me, Hocchiku has no additions what so ever. A lot of Jinashi flutes only have a coat of urushi with no Ji at all. I guess the thinking is once you start adding stuff, where do you draw the line?

I have heard from more than one shakuhachi person that oiling the bore is ill advised.

I've never oiled a bore but have played some shakuhachi flutes with oiled bores. It's impossible to say if they're better or worse but the smell could be an issue.

Namaste, Perry

I'd posit the notion that your flute is 'sounding better', and has 'less hissing' mostly because, in continuing to play it, you have
improved in your technique.

eB

Last edited by edosan (2006-10-16 09:51:26)

You are losing your mind.

But you'll probably get over it.

Mostly...

There are many commercial lacquers available that you might use, but there are a couple of issues with those:

    • Many have volatile thinners and dryers in them which, even though they blow off fairly quickly, may be objectionable or even slightly toxic.

    • It's not always easy with these lacquers to find a happy balance between drying time and application time: If you have a quick-drying lacquer, application must be done quickly to get an even coating, whereas slower drying lacquers may have longer lasting volatile residues.

Perry Yung put a commercial lacquer (red) in a 2.1 I got from him, and it had a very faint odor for a short while when it was new, but that dissipated completely in a few weeks. He put brown urushi in a 2.8 he made for me, and it was very dry and hard when I received the flute--I'm not sensitive to urushi, so that's not an issue for me (both flutes are jinashi).

I suggest asking Perry about the lacquer he put in my 2.1:

   yungflutes<at>yahoo.com

eB

Shellac - the only true moisture barrier, can be thinned for better penetration, dries quickly, does not require sanding between coats, cures hard, cures glossy, AND.... is non-toxic, readily available, inexpensive. Apply it as described in James' post above or spot apply w/ a sumi-e brush for spot tuning....
Also works great as an exterior sealer/coat....

I have used Crayola powder pigment (kid's water color powder) and mixed it w/ Shellac very successflully. You need to apply a clear coat over the pigmented coat.
Shellac comes in a Clear and Amber hue. The Amber imparts a warm hue to the material.

Your guitar probably has a "French Polish" finish (Shellac - hand rubbed to build up layers)...

...

The only reliable way to reduce the likelihood of cracking is to bind the flute, alas.

...

Woods warp and check and crack because of imbalanced absorbtion/desorbtion of moisture. Whatever you do to one side you must also do to the other. In other words, seal one side and now you must seal the other to put things into balance. Now open a piece of bamboo and you have raw unsealed interior and an osmotic skin exterior; the interior will absorb/desorb faster then the exterior. A thin coat of sealer helps bring this back into balance. In the case of jiari bores which are built up and sealed many times the exterior will absorb and desorb faster then the interior. Here, binding is the only answer. So, if you plan to seal and finish coat the bore better plan on adding about nine bindings. If you plan on leaving the interior raw then bindings are less important, but still can be a good idea if you live in very dry climes or subject the flute to extremes of temp. changes. Another option: seal and finish coat both interior and exterior which was an old samuai technique to deal w/ cracks....

gmiller wrote:

Another option: seal and finish coat both interior and exterior which was an old samuai technique to deal w/ cracks....

Or the old fast-food technique of deep-frying your bamboo before you make it into a flute.     Bottom of the page has a "french fried" theory.

Toffe, by the way, if you haven't stumbled across Nelson Zink's site already, you might enjoy it.  Nelson has generously shared a lot of research, math, and ideas about ways to build better flutes.  Not "better" in the traditional sense though, so go with an open mind.

-Darren.

Last edited by dstone (2006-10-18 10:11:10)

Thx guys. Yeah Zink's notes are great... even if some of his ideas seem abit too drastic for me as a beginner.

I also just want to inform that the second coating of tung oil has just dried in the bore. It's not completely cured but it ok.
The flute definitively sound different. More volume and a clearer tone. I will add a third and last coating in a few days and then leave it to cure for a week or so.

// Chris the Swede.

Last edited by Toffe (2006-10-18 17:38:24)