Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

All true--they are interdependent, but you can change the effects of the chimney heights by how they are undercut--Monty calls it 'tuning the impedance of the holes'.

That may be, in fact, why the work needs to be done on the holes in the Yuu, since the chimneys are so radical toward the bell end relative to a 'normal' flute.

Last edited by edosan (2008-01-22 21:43:34)

Finally, we come to a question truly worth pondering....

Last edited by edosan (2008-01-23 10:31:24)

Last night I was at a corporate dinner.

Lo and behold I ended up sitting next to a senior engineer in charge a large manafacutring facility.  We were talking about his work, which, I was really excited to learn, includes overseeing injection molding for small plastic parts.

I told my colleague about our discussions about shakuhachi, materials, and my private theory that with the right budget and materials one should be able to mass produce master shakuhachi.

His response was very interesting.

Specifically he said:

1) To create a reliable mold that would allow one to reproduce shakuhachi exactly with no manual involvement would cost around $300,000.  And this would not include labor costs for actually creating the untis themselves. 


2) Surprisingly, he was very skeptical that any plastic could ever reproduce the sound of bamboo exactrly.  He understood the theory that the empty space should determine the sound - but he said resonance of materials is actually a big issue in his field for many building materials for lots of reasons, and he stated flatly that no two materials are alike.   (Apparently how materials vibrate is an issue in certain manafacturing situations.)

So for me this was a satisfying end to this whole issue.

Apparently manafacturing high-end plastic shakuhachi will just never happen for $ reasons, and it may very well just be impossible.


And btw, we drank an awesome beer called: Allagash Dubbel.   So much better than ANY martini.

And besides, beer is FOOD! 

eB

edosan wrote:

Seth wrote:

Apparently manafacturing high-end plastic shakuhachi will just never happen for $ reasons, and it may very well just be impossible.

That's a pretty typical startup cost figure for almost any fancy injection-molded item. Perhaps you could grind up a bunch of bamboo and mix
it into the plastic matrix  Get that resonance dialed in JUST right (huh, Tairaku? You listening?).

eB

I am ALWAYS listening, sort of like God!

And as a matter of fact Inoue Shigeshi commercially marketed a set of shakuhachi which were fascinating. They were 3 piece. They had a universal utaguchi section and universal "root end". The 4 middle sections were cut for 1.7, 1.8, 1.9, and 2.0. And it was made of bamboo composite material. Very good product, much better than the Yuu or wooden shakuhachi. Of course Inoue is a great maker and the 2.0 at least was very respectable and the other lengths decent. I have a set but it's in my office. When I get it I'll take a picture and post it. The set marketed for around 100,000 yen, I believe.

We (Taimu brain trust) did some research into that injection molding concept to create working class Taimu but ran into the same concepts Seth refers to in terms of $$$$$$$ and gave up on it. Also because as others mentioned it would require hand finishing anyway, so why not use bamboo? It appears the best and least expensive way to make shakuhachi is still by hand.

I used to drink Allagash when I lived in NYC. It's a respectable Belgian style ale.

fouw wrote:

Tairaku, if you loved Laphroaig, try Ardbeg cask strength next time!

An advantage of plastic flutes is the blowing end doesn't get that peaty smell.

Shall we move this to the food thread?

Kees

I had some of that recently. In fact the Tasmanian Whisky Society recently had an Ardbeg tasting, which I couldn't attend but the organizer gave me a private tasting of several Ardbegs.

Regarding the smell. I once got one of the personal flutes of a very prominent Japanese maker/player (who shall remain nameless until I publish my memoirs) and the thing REEKED of beer and cigarettes for quite some time.

Tairaku wrote:

edosan wrote:

Seth wrote:

Apparently manafacturing high-end plastic shakuhachi will just never happen for $ reasons, and it may very well just be impossible.

That's a pretty typical startup cost figure for almost any fancy injection-molded item. Perhaps you could grind up a bunch of bamboo and mix
it into the plastic matrix  Get that resonance dialed in JUST right (huh, Tairaku? You listening?).

eB

I am ALWAYS listening, sort of like God!

And as a matter of fact Inoue Shigeshi commercially marketed a set of shakuhachi which were fascinating. They were 3 piece. They had a universal utaguchi section and universal "root end". The 4 middle sections were cut for 1.7, 1.8, 1.9, and 2.0. And it was made of bamboo composite material. Very good product, much better than the Yuu or wooden shakuhachi. Of course Inoue is a great maker and the 2.0 at least was very respectable and the other lengths decent. I have a set but it's in my office. When I get it I'll take a picture and post it. The set marketed for around 100,000 yen, I believe.

We (Taimu brain trust) did some research into that injection molding concept to create working class Taimu but ran into the same concepts Seth refers to in terms of $$$$$$$ and gave up on it. Also because as others mentioned it would require hand finishing anyway, so why not use bamboo? It appears the best and least expensive way to make shakuhachi is still by hand.

I used to drink Allagash when I lived in NYC. It's a respectable Belgian style ale.

Interesting quote about the composite Bamboo Shakuhachi.

As a matter of fact standard 1.8 all the way up to 2.3 are still available made from composite Bamboo. I played one last year and was very satisfied with the sound resonance etc. As far as I am concerned they feel look and play like some of the 1000 up to 1500 flutes you can get from Mejiro plus they are made of bamboo. Also I noticed that unlike wooden Shakuhachi those have a real inlaid buffalo horn utaguchi. If anyone is interested I am still able to get my hands on some of those in the 1.8 range at 625$ U.S shipped.

I feel they are the best alternative so far right after the Yu in price range.

Yes there is but it is only in Japanese and they only sell to Shops and music stores all over Japan. They are also the maker of most of the wooden flutes also on the market amde in 3 different type of woods.

If you want pictures I will send them later on.

So I am trying to get setted up and sell those myself outside of Japan anytime soon. I feel they are one of the best alternative since #1 They are made of bamboo #2 The bore is 100% Ji Nashi the only thing in there is the Urushi #3 No cracks will occur on these since they are of the same strenght as Bamboo flooring.

Mejiro used to sell those also quite a while back but they dont seem to sell them anymore. Maybe due to the fact that for half the price they are as good as what their lower end flutes are.

Gishin - I would like to see photos; also the japanese web site; the language is not a problem... I think I have seen these before; perhaps on Mejiro's site.,,,

Tairaku wrote:

And as a matter of fact Inoue Shigeshi commercially marketed a set of shakuhachi which were fascinating. They were 3 piece. They had a universal utaguchi section and universal "root end". The 4 middle sections were cut for 1.7, 1.8, 1.9, and 2.0. And it was made of bamboo composite material. Very good product, much better than the Yuu or wooden shakuhachi. Of course Inoue is a great maker and the 2.0 at least was very respectable and the other lengths decent. I have a set but it's in my office. When I get it I'll take a picture and post it. The set marketed for around 100,000 yen, I believe.

Here's the pic, shakuhachi porn fans!

Hi Gishin,

These bamboo composite flutes, do they essentially simulate a jiari sound?  If so, do any come in  2.7 or 2.8?  At some point I would like to try a 2.7 or 2.8 jiari type flute, as a counterpoint to my 2.8 taimu.  As near as I can figure it, the cheapest root end jiari type out there is Monty's, which is around $1400 or so (as I do not count the tiger bamboo, non root end kind he makes).  Then again, I don't know much, and have never tried a jiari of that length, but I sure would like to try, and this type of flute you mentioned sounds intriguing

thanks for the info Gishin, as always you are a valuable source of good info.  thx

by the way, if you are ever visiting montreal, please look me up

that would be awesome, as I have been only playing the solitary, alone path.  Shaman141 also lives in montreal (south shore), is a very decent guy, and has given me a couple of pointers in person.  I didn't know you worked in montreal.  I do too (for the time being), up on Pins around McGill. 

Will the Dojo include shakuhachi?  How long does it take to get to St-Jerome by public transport? Practicing in a Dojo would be incredible.