Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

withaquietmind · 2008-02-07 21:22:03

So I'm pretty new to the shakuhachi (and thank you all who have been so helpful thus far) and I was just looking at some flute-making pages. Looking at a list of tools required got me thinking....how were these made before any electric drills or modern technology took the stage? It would seem that electricity is, relatively speaking, a newcomer to the life of shakuhachi making.

Does anyone still make them without modern tools? If not, that would be an interesting challenge for the flute makers out there...

-Ryan

Tairaku 太楽 · 2008-02-08 00:32:36

withaquietmind wrote:
So I'm pretty new to the shakuhachi (and thank you all who have been so helpful thus far) and I was just looking at some flute-making pages. Looking at a list of tools required got me thinking....how were these made before any electric drills or modern technology took the stage? It would seem that electricity is, relatively speaking, a newcomer to the life of shakuhachi making.

Does anyone still make them without modern tools? If not, that would be an interesting challenge for the flute makers out there...

-Ryan

Good idea. Maybe we should have a contest for that as well!

Musgo da Pedra · 2008-02-08 06:17:04

Tairaku wrote:
Good idea. Maybe we should have a contest for that as well!

I know that you're joking Tairaku...I always looked to musical contests of any kind, best violinist, best guitar player, pianist, whatever else like bull shit. Of course some good mushrooms grow on shit... Contest can show a new talent, yes; but on the other side it hides a lot of souls.. If we are searching competitions we can make some teams like Jiari vs Jinashi or The Electric vs The Power Hands and play some games. Music is not competition, in all aspects.

I think that the maker who do not use power tools have a big advantage over the others in one aspect, he can take almost all he needs in a single backpack and make flutes anywhere, on the beach, woods. Even if he is a wanderer make good flutes will be possible without the need to readjust that the man who always use electric tools will need to do his flutes...

Power tools are a hand on the wheel but the manual tools make you more sensitive and closer of bamboo (to me at least)...

A big hug to you all... And peace.

Last edited by Musgo da Pedra (2008-02-08 06:21:22)

Yooper · 2008-02-08 11:42:15

Does a power drill have a Buddha nature?

Mujitsu · 2008-02-08 11:58:54

withaquietmind wrote:
Looking at a list of tools required got me thinking....how were these made before any electric drills or modern technology took the stage?
-Ryan

Actually, it's not difficult to crank out some shakuhachi without electricity. A non electric hand drill is helpful. Options there go from primitive to modern. You can also burn the holes. Other than that, a few saws and files should do the trick.

Musgo da Pedra wrote:
Power tools are a hand on the wheel but the manual tools make you more sensitive and closer of bamboo (to me at least)...

When I was younger I relied more on hand power for precisely this reason. I felt a connection with the material. Since I'm doing this all the time, as I get older my body doesn't cooperate with that ideal like it used to. The nerve! So, I use power tools for some of the steps. Funny thing is, I now enjoy a unique connection through the power tools. It seems "it" can be in anything!

amokrun · 2008-02-08 12:29:49

Mujitsu wrote:
When I was younger I relied more on hand power for precisely this reason. I felt a connection with the material. Since I'm doing this all the time, as I get older my body doesn't cooperate with that ideal like it used to. The nerve! So, I use power tools for some of the steps. Funny thing is, I now enjoy a unique connection through the power tools. It seems "it" can be in anything!

Reminds me of the discussion on if calligraphy students should use liquid ink from a bottle or grind their own from a stone. Ink in a bottle is easier to use since you can get it instantly whenever you need and usually of just fine quality. Ink stones produce more or less the same results but require a fair bit of work before you get any ink. Some people insist that grinding the ink is an important part of the process because you can focus on the painting during that time. Others say that it doesn't matter and that it's better to spend more time painting than to use that time for the grinding. There are all sorts of arguments on both sides as to what everyone should do.

I can't help but to think that ultimately debating about which ink to use is missing the point. The goal of grinding your own ink is to give you some silent time during which you can relax and stop thinking about all your daily worries. If you can let go of everything else already you can freely choose either method. Unfortunately a lot of people cannot and thus you may be better off taking that 15 minutes of grinding before you get to work. Which ink you pick isn't nearly as important as how you approach the whole process and how mindful you can be about it. I would assume that the same applies to power tools.

Moran from Planet X · 2008-02-08 14:49:34

Mujitsu wrote:
Since I'm doing this all the time, as I get older my body doesn't cooperate with that ideal like it used to. The nerve! So, I use power tools for some of the steps. Funny thing is, I now enjoy a unique connection through the power tools. It seems "it" can be in anything!

Yes, I agree. With age comes wisdom .... along with the disintegrating body parts.

I had a very fond lesbian friend in Topanga Canyon who used to break out into a flush-faced, shuddering sweat every time she went to the local hardware store power tool section. She was famous at Home Depot.

withaquietmind · 2008-02-08 14:56:41

Mujitsu wrote:
Actually, it's not difficult to crank out some shakuhachi without electricity. A non electric hand drill is helpful. Options there go from primitive to modern. You can also burn the holes. Other than that, a few saws and files should do the trick.

A hand drill makes sense for the smaller flutes...but what about a 2.4's and up? I'm wondering how those makers could hollow out long flutes with enough precision to make them playable. Or perhaps there is a relationship between the arrival and popularity of longer flutes and the arrival of electric/modern/precision tools.

Mujitsu · 2008-02-08 16:01:38

withaquietmind wrote:
I'm wondering how those makers could hollow out long flutes with enough precision to make them playable. Or perhaps there is a relationship between the arrival and popularity of longer flutes and the arrival of electric/modern/precision tools.

Personally, I don't think there is a relationship between length of shakuhachi and the arrival of modern tools.

The basic muscle steps of shakuhachi making (drilling, cutting, shaping, etc.) for any length flute can all be accomplished with the most basic of hand tools. The complex steps (tuning, tone adjustment) are subtle and even less dependent on muscle.

Longer bits take care of any length issues. Or a metal rod can be used to pound out some of the thinner nodes in the middle if necessary. Long rasps are great for grinding out any node material.

One of the things I've always loved about shakuhachi making is that it requires more tinkering than heavy construction. Its equalizer is that it can be made with the most basic of tools. It's available to anyone who has the will.

By the way Ryan, I like your "Early Frost" piece on your myspace page!

Musgo da Pedra · 2008-02-08 17:51:35

Yes it's all a matter of feeling... Feel good the whole thing that involves make a flute and do not haste the steps and everything will be fine...

Of course when we get older the body is going to be weaker and what about our ears? I don't wan't do get older hearing drill machine noises or even this boring pc cooler... Even putting something into the ears to make the noise lower, it's boring...

I think that if a flute is good, she is good... I would like to have a Mujitsu one and it's not the electricity parameter that will make me not purchase one (money yes hehehehe)...

What matter to me is feel the interaction with the moment, with the whole thing when making a flute... I like to use less electric tools as possible... So I can make them without banish the birds that come around when I'm testing them, between each little sand!!!

I have a strong feeling inside me that the desire of comfort is what have made the man loose his conection with all the nature. In advantage of comfort, we use to make anything. We put down the trees, kill animals, even men, we accept almost anything... Since a few years ago we have seen a lot of publicity talking about the environment and to take care of it... But if anything get opposed to our comfort, we don't care about environment. All the modernism has good and bad sides... But at the moment what of these are strong and what of this we favored? Make things with the body use, using his strength is good and many masters use it until advaced age... Electricity is also fine... Everything is in the rigth place and in right time on Tao...

But when I get older loosing my hair many years from now the world will have much more modernity... And I will still sitting under a tree playing or making a flute, not under a neon outdoor... Everyone knows the better for itself...

Anyway, let's keep playing, making flutes and taking care of all things here on earth...We don't wan't a world of cement... Where is my mind? I don't know if I'm still on the subject... Forget it...

Peace my friends...

withaquietmind · 2008-02-08 21:46:27

Musgo da Pedra wrote:
What matter to me is feel the interaction with the moment, with the whole thing when making a flute... I like to use less electric tools as possible... So I can make them without banish the birds that come around when I'm testing them, between each little sand!!!

I love that visual.

Mujitsu wrote:
One of the things I've always loved about shakuhachi making is that it requires more tinkering than heavy construction. Its equalizer is that it can be made with the most basic of tools. It's available to anyone who has the will.

Thats good news! I was inspired yesterday and saw on my kitchen counter an paper-towel tube...amazingly, with a few scissor cuts for a utaguchi and 3 holes poked with a pencil actually yielded results. The note was clear, though there was no meri to speak of. I think I'm going to the UPS store and get a long thick cardboard tube used for mailing purposes. Maybe that will be easier to work with than PVC for now (and more cost effective).

Also...where does one who lives, say, in Chicago, acquire bamboo for flute making? I'm not thinking a whole lot, but a few pieces to experiment on would be fun...

withaquietmind · 2008-02-08 22:43:37

Though if I used cardboard I suppose after awhile it would just fall apart from the breath and water absorption...oh well...

Mujitsu · 2008-02-08 23:00:45

withaquietmind wrote:
Also...where does one who lives, say, in Chicago, acquire bamboo for flute making? I'm not thinking a whole lot, but a few pieces to experiment on would be fun...

Franks Cane and Rush is a good place to buy basic, decent quality root bamboo for shakuhachi.

withaquietmind wrote:
Though if I used cardboard I suppose after awhile it would just fall apart from the breath and water absorption...oh well...

Check this out for another exercise in impermanence.

Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

#1 2008-02-07 21:22:03

Shakuhachi Before Electricity...

#2 2008-02-08 00:32:36

Re: Shakuhachi Before Electricity...

withaquietmind wrote:

#3 2008-02-08 06:17:04

Re: Shakuhachi Before Electricity...

Tairaku wrote:

#4 2008-02-08 11:42:15

Re: Shakuhachi Before Electricity...

#5 2008-02-08 11:58:54

Re: Shakuhachi Before Electricity...

withaquietmind wrote:

Musgo da Pedra wrote:

#6 2008-02-08 12:29:49

Re: Shakuhachi Before Electricity...

Mujitsu wrote:

#7 2008-02-08 14:49:34

Re: Shakuhachi Before Electricity...

Mujitsu wrote:

#8 2008-02-08 14:56:41

Re: Shakuhachi Before Electricity...

Mujitsu wrote:

#9 2008-02-08 16:01:38

Re: Shakuhachi Before Electricity...

withaquietmind wrote:

#10 2008-02-08 17:51:35

Re: Shakuhachi Before Electricity...

#11 2008-02-08 21:46:27

Re: Shakuhachi Before Electricity...

Musgo da Pedra wrote:

Mujitsu wrote:

#12 2008-02-08 22:43:37

Re: Shakuhachi Before Electricity...

#13 2008-02-08 23:00:45

Re: Shakuhachi Before Electricity...

withaquietmind wrote:

withaquietmind wrote:

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