Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

amokrun · 2008-02-12 07:32:34

I have a question regarding differences in different types of flutes. Out of all the flutes I've tried, all the at least decent ones play most notes fine. One notable exception is Ichi San no U which very often is either very quiet or almost impossible to produce. Roughly speaking, many Myoan style flutes seem to have this specific issue whereas most any decent Kinko flute or Tozan flute has no trouble with that fingering. San no U, on the other hand, seems to work fine on most flutes. This issue is most easily apparent when you try to hit the first hole repeatedly. The flutes that have problems with Ichi San no U tend to stop producing most any sound the very moment you release the hole for the first time. In other flutes the Ichi San no U is often the easier of the two to play right in my experience and it's generally easier to make it louder.

This makes me wonder. How common Ichi San no U fingering is in Myoan music? I know it's plenty common in Kinko and I have no idea about Tozan. I know a grand total of maybe two Myoan honkyoku (although I'd love to learn more) and neither of those uses Ichi San no U but that's not the most exhaustive piece of research. Most min'yo pieces I know simply use Chi Meri instead almost universally. The only notations I've ever seen that use Ichi San no U have been Kinko honkyoku.

If someone who has studied Myoan music could point out some differences between the requirements for a flute in Myoan music in comparison to Kinko, that would help a lot.

nyokai · 2008-02-12 09:24:18

Ichi san no u (or ru) is very very common in Myoan honkyoku -- it probably comes up in a majority of the Myoan peices I'm familiar with, and is common in Dokyoku as well. The pitch equivalent is most often a re, not chi meri, but the tone color is completely different from a re of course, so that would not be a good substitution, nor would chi dai meri (especially since ichi san no u is often repeated with the three hole). But I have not encountered such a problem with playing the note on Myoan flutes, except that on some old flutes you can't do the added convenient thing of partially covering the one hole -- not a big deal really. Could the problem be that you're not lowering your head (meri-ing) enough on the ichi san no u? This is required to get the sound out... If you do the san no u to ichi san no u test that you're talking about, your head would have to be going up and down with every articulation...

amokrun · 2008-02-12 09:36:40

nyokai wrote:
Could the problem be that you're not lowering your head (meri-ing) enough on the ichi san no u? This is required to get the sound out... If you do the san no u to ichi san no u test that you're talking about, your head would have to be going up and down with every articulation...

The sound does indeed get better if I meri the note down to roughly where it should be. The interesting thing is that some flutes don't seem to play Ichi San no U in kari position properly whereas others have no problem with it no matter how you keep your head. It is indeed not such a big deal since it works the right way when necessary. I tried to play a few phrases on a flute like that and it indeed works right with proper meri.

Thanks for clarifying the issue. One of these days I'd love to learn a Myoan piece or two. Too bad that would involve an even longer trip to who knows where. Going from one country to the next one is tricky enough right now.

nyokai · 2008-02-12 11:19:30

amokrun wrote:
Thanks for clarifying the issue.

No problem.

This is a great example of how much more efficient it would be to utilize an individual teacher -- even online, even for just one or two lessons. As you played the teacher would just say "more meri" -- less than a second of instruction rather than a lot of trying to puzzle things out via forums, unclear instruction manuals, etc.

amokrun · 2008-02-12 12:07:53

nyokai wrote:
This is a great example of how much more efficient it would be to utilize an individual teacher -- even online, even for just one or two lessons. As you played the teacher would just say "more meri" -- less than a second of instruction rather than a lot of trying to puzzle things out via forums, unclear instruction manuals, etc.

True, and that's why I'm taking lessons. It's only that pace is pretty darn slow with my teacher being quite busy with his day job and me being unable to go there often due to it taking quite a while to travel over. This question was mostly a theoretical one that had little to do with my studies. I can get Ichi San no U mostly right in the context of pieces but I was curious when I noticed that different flutes react differently when you do things a bit differently - in this case, take the note well into kari and see what happens.

As far as lessons go, I'm hoping to figure out some kind of alternative plan soon enough. Right now my lessons are progressing at a pace that leaves a lot to be desired. At this pace I can expect to hear the last Kinko honkyoku at some point during my third life.

Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

#1 2008-02-12 07:32:34

Myoan flute differences.

#2 2008-02-12 09:24:18

Re: Myoan flute differences.

#3 2008-02-12 09:36:40

Re: Myoan flute differences.

nyokai wrote:

#4 2008-02-12 11:19:30

Re: Myoan flute differences.

amokrun wrote:

#5 2008-02-12 12:07:53

Re: Myoan flute differences.

nyokai wrote:

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