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#1 2008-03-02 15:05:26

Caligium
Member
Registered: 2008-03-02
Posts: 28

Tips for a beginner?

I know this has probably been brought up before but I got a Shakuhachi a while ago. I almost have getting the right sound down (I think). I can't read notes and I don't know the notes on a Shakuhachi.  Can anyone give me some songs or scales and fingering for them? Is there any Shakuhachi equivelant for tablature.

Last edited by Caligium (2008-03-02 15:19:03)

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#2 2008-03-02 16:27:37

philthefluter
Member
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: 2006-06-02
Posts: 190
Website

Re: Tips for a beginner?

There are fingering charts here: [url]http://www.japanshakuhachi.com/gettingstarted.html[url]and here: http://www.shakuhachisociety.eu/fingeringchart.htm.

There are also plenty of free scores. Check out the transcriptions of classical and popular pieces here http://www.4shared.com/dir/5119010/dc0a … aring.html.

I also have some scores of Irish melodies on my site. Look on the site map page.


"The bamboo and Zen are One!" Kurosawa Kinko
http://www.shakuhachizen.com/
http://www.myspace.com/shakuhachizen

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#3 2008-03-03 01:25:27

axolotl
Member
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 2007-11-16
Posts: 215
Website

Re: Tips for a beginner?

Caligium, I definitely recommend searching in your area for a teacher, and also looking at shakuhachi.com for various instruction manuals recommended there.  Recommendations will also no doubt be listed here as well.  I have the Carl Abbot book, and am learning from John Neptune's manual as well.

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#4 2008-03-10 09:09:02

Vevolis
Member
From: Toronto, ON
Registered: 2007-12-24
Posts: 175
Website

Re: Tips for a beginner?

This is embarrassing. The flute I own is supposedly good for "Dokyoku style of Zen Honkyoku or other Zen music". Is there a particular portion of the fingering chart I should use/ignore in particular? Can I play Kinko style? Which portion is Kinko, specifically? I see a big "Kinko" and a series of notes. One would only assume... but assumptions lead to accusations which lead to arguments with an inanimate object which leads to therapy...

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#5 2008-03-10 09:47:51

Zakarius
Member
From: Taichung, TAIWAN
Registered: 2006-04-12
Posts: 361

Re: Tips for a beginner?

Vevolis wrote:

This is embarrassing. The flute I own is supposedly good for "Dokyoku style of Zen Honkyoku or other Zen music". Is there a particular portion of the fingering chart I should use/ignore in particular? Can I play Kinko style? Which portion is Kinko, specifically? I see a big "Kinko" and a series of notes. One would only assume... but assumptions lead to accusations which lead to arguments with an inanimate object which leads to therapy...

Dokyoku, Kinko and Tozan are the three most commonly referred to 'schools' of zen honkyoku shakuhachi music. What I've learned from recent conversations here is that Kinko seems to be the most widely accepted school in the eyes of Westerners. Tozan (and its many subschools) is the big school in Japan. Dokyoku has a smaller following and the style of music is catagorized as being less refined... more raw.

As far as the fingerings go, I believe the three schools are nearly identical. Some flutes (especially lower-end ones) may not be able to play some notes, or the fingering on the flute may need to be adjusted to match the proper pitch. (On my 3.3, for example, the only note which is off pitch is the kan register/second octave I/Ee -- I have to tilt my head back heavily for proper pitch.) So I wouldn't worry too much about the shortcomings of your flute (if there even are any) or worry about focusing on this school or that. Without a teacher to push you in one direction or another, it doesn't really matter at this point. My guess is that if you're looking to try to learn on your own, you'll end up finding Kinko notation and scores on the net and your flute should be fine as long as it's "in tune with itself" -- i.e. the 5 notes are proper distance from each other but not necessarily identical to Western pitches.

Zak -- jinashi size queen


塵も積もれば山となる -- "Chiri mo tsumoreba yama to naru." -- Piled-up specks of dust become a mountain.

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#6 2008-03-10 11:07:19

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: Tips for a beginner?

Zakarius wrote:

Dokyoku, Kinko and Tozan are the three most commonly referred to 'schools' of zen honkyoku shakuhachi music.

Hello!

I have some comments on the above quote, which is a little challenging for my ears (or reading eyes). First of all, the Tozan school do not play 'zen honkyoku' or honkyoku from the Edo period. They have a whole new honkyoku repertoire which is composed by their iemotos (head of guild). A lot of their 'honkyoku' as they do call them are duos, trios, ensembles of shakuhachi. So, Tozan is a whole category in itself! Dr. Ingrid Fritsch has written a PhD thesis on tozan honkyoku.

Then there is dokyoku. A lot of non-Japanese players seem to have taken this concept to their hearts - so it is widely used. Dokyoku in reality refers to the style of Watazumi Doso. But who plays dokyoku? None of the Watazumi students I have met calls their music dokyoku (I am not saying nobody would say they play dokyoku). I think Yokoyama Katsuya may have used this word. When I organised the first Shakuhachi Summer School in London 2006, I Kakizakai and Furuya senseis, what to call their style, they asked me not to use that word. They told me Yokoyama didn't use it anymore. The Yokoyama people in Japan refer to their playing as koten honkyoku (as everybody else). I would probably say, it is koten honkyoku learned from Yokoyama, which is a powderful mix of kinko and Wtazumi-do.

Kinko, yes is the classic shakuhachi school of both excellent honkyoku and san/shin-kyoku music - just like Yokoyama's KSK (kokusai shakuhachi kenshuukan).

When talking about honkyoku, I would say you shouldn't forget to mention the myoan tradition. After the abolition of the Fuke sect, some ex-komuso gathered and tried to organise a continuation of the proud traditions of the komuso way around the Myoan temple. The Myoan school never managed to organise their 'school' in a strict iemoto system like the Tozan school, which is based on how other Japanese art guilds organise themselves (the kinko school is also less tightly organised). Within Myoan school there are many different groups which may originate in the region and teachings of a repertoire of a particular Fuke sect temple.

So, what is most commonly said is that the 3 major schools of shakuhachi are: kinko, myoan and tozan. Out of which kinko and myoan play honkyoku, the repertoire of the komuso monks of the Fuke sect.

But there are more than that today. Apart from KSK, the Yokoyama school, there is Chikuho-ryu, well-known by non-Japanese shakuhachi players for the school where Riley Lee got his license. The chikuho school is an excellent school for honkyoku although it is a school founded in the early 20th century. There is also the followers of the Jin Nyodo lineage, like Kurahashi Yoshio... and many others. I belong to a tiny school myself, Zensabo.

About fingering: They do vary slightly from school to school. If you play jinashi there may be some differences from jinuri fingering too. I made a fingering chart for the London Summer School 06, where the notation of kinko, tozan, KSK and Zensabo, the little school of Okuda Atsuya. It is a pity I didn't add myoan. I will do this soon, I think. And perhaps Chikuho! But you can download the fingering chart here to have a look: www.shakuhachisummer-soas.com/fingeringchart

Good luck with the blowing!
Kiku


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#7 2008-03-10 12:02:20

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: Tips for a beginner?

Vevolis wrote:

This is embarrassing. The flute I own is supposedly good for "Dokyoku style of Zen Honkyoku or other Zen music". Is there a particular portion of the fingering chart I should use/ignore in particular? Can I play Kinko style? Which portion is Kinko, specifically? I see a big "Kinko" and a series of notes. One would only assume... but assumptions lead to accusations which lead to arguments with an inanimate object which leads to therapy...

Nothing to be embarrassed about, this is all very confusing.

Assuming you downloaded the PDF chart linked to in the messages above, the notation for Dokyoku is in the "KSK" line.

However, if your flute is "good for Dokyoku" it's good for Kinko and Tozan as well (and Meian, which uses similar notation to Kinko and KSK, and Chikuho, which uses a completely different notation). You should choose a teacher based upon what music you feel the most affinity for. If you don't have a choice of teachers, no matter, it is fine to plunge into any of the traditions. The differences are really not that great.

I would not pay too much attention to the fingering charts until you find a teacher -- he or she may diverge from the chart on certain points. I think fingering charts should be a reminder or reference, not something to study outside the context of the tradition.

To make these schools and lineages a bit clearer:

There have always been people playing and passing along shakuhachi music outside of any particular school. Often this music was associated with particular areas or Zen temples. Today this music is often referred to as "Meian" or "Myoan" music, after the Myoan temple in Kyoto. A particular piece may be associated with a completely different temple, but Myoan or Meian the shorthand for the genre. There are quite a few Meian teachers in the US, due in part to Ronnie Nyogetsu Seldin's energetic teaching activities since the 70's, the more recent popularity of Yoshio Kurahashi's workshops, and the ongoing work of the students of both masters. These Meian teachers also teach some Kinko pieces and may teach some Dokyoku as well. The Meian music, in my oopinion, is very simple and pure, as meditative as it is artistic.

So what's Kinko? In the 18th century Kinko Kurosawa collected a bunch of what we'd now call Meian pieces, standardized many of the techniques, and wrote the music down in the notation he invented. In other words, he sort of froze the music into a standard repertoire of 36 pieces that has remained essentially the same for many many years. Of course there are branches of the Kinko school and the music has evolved some, but there is a lot of consistency across the branches due to the existence of written notation from its inception and a fairly strict conservative take on the iemoto system -- the passing on of the "mantle of power" to a son or a very close insider. Most branches of Kinko also place a strong emphasis on sankyoku (trio music with koto and shamisen) as well as the 36 standard honkyoku. Kinko teachers in the US include Ralph Samuelson, David Wheeler, Elizabeth Reian Bennet, Christopher Blaisdel when he's around... there are a few others. The Kinko style is refined and elegant, with beautifully nuanced ornaments and very subtle dynamic changes.

Tozan is a new school (very end of the 19th century) that addresses the onslaught of Western music in Japan. It uses an improved notation, at least when it comes to rhythm. All Kinko and Meian teachers can also teach you Tozan notation if necessary for certain pieces -- often modern composed pieces are notated in Tozan notation. The Tozan school heavily emphasizes sankyoku and modern music. Tozan players do not play what other schools think of as traditional honkyoku; what the Tozan school calls honkyoku are pieces that were composed by its founder.

Much more recently -- mid 20th century -- an excellent Meian shakuhachi player named Watazumi started adapting some of the old pieces to his own highly expressive style of playing. He passed these versions on to his student Yokoyama Katsuya, and this became the Dokyoku school. Through Yokoyama's tireless and zealous teaching, there are now many Dokyoku teachers, including quite a few in North America -- Michael Gould, Al Ramos, and Peter Hill leap to mind. There are a few small differences in technique and notation between the various Meian styles and Dokyoku.

Another branch off the Meian trunk is Chikuho, also with an improved notation. That notation uses different characters and is not represented on the chart you downloaded. Outside Japan, Riley Lee is the main proponent of Chikuho.

There are other branches that use SLIGHTLY different notations. One large group is the Taizan-Ha Meian school; another small group is the more recent followers of Okuda Atsuya -- this newer tradition is marked "Zensabo" on your chart. Zensabo players only play ji-nashi flutes, I believe. The fingering and notation differences between these different schools are really no big deal at all.

Plunging into ANY of these lineages is a wonderful experience, they're all responsible for some very beautiful music; you can always switch later. Simply finding a qualified teacher -- in any school or style -- is the first step.

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#8 2008-03-10 12:18:58

Zakarius
Member
From: Taichung, TAIWAN
Registered: 2006-04-12
Posts: 361

Re: Tips for a beginner?

Kiku Day wrote:

Zakarius wrote:

Dokyoku, Kinko and Tozan are the three most commonly referred to 'schools' of zen honkyoku shakuhachi music.

I have some comments on the above quote, which is a little challenging for my ears (or reading eyes).

Well, I did try to emphasize that my knowledge was drawn from a recent discussion of a similar topic. Thanks to Kiku and Nyokai for the clarification.

Zak -- jinashi size queen


塵も積もれば山となる -- "Chiri mo tsumoreba yama to naru." -- Piled-up specks of dust become a mountain.

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#9 2008-03-10 12:27:19

jumbuk
Member
From: South-eastern Australia
Registered: 2005-12-15
Posts: 85

Re: Tips for a beginner?

Kiku Day wrote:

Then there is dokyoku. A lot of non-Japanese players seem to have taken this concept to their hearts - so it is widely used. Dokyoku in reality refers to the style of Watazumi Doso. But who plays dokyoku? None of the Watazumi students I have met calls their music dokyoku (I am not saying nobody would say they play dokyoku). I think Yokoyama Katsuya may have used this word. When I organised the first Shakuhachi Summer School in London 2006, I Kakizakai and Furuya senseis, what to call their style, they asked me not to use that word. They told me Yokoyama didn't use it anymore. The Yokoyama people in Japan refer to their playing as koten honkyoku (as everybody else). I would probably say, it is koten honkyoku learned from Yokoyama, which is a powderful mix of kinko and Wtazumi-do.

Kiku

So as soon as I read this, I started noticing Dokyoku players!  On this forum, at least two qualified teachers (Takegawa and Chikuzen) include the word in the text beside their avatars.  Also, Perry Yung uses the term to describe his style that he learned from his teacher.

Would any of these three gentlemen care to comment?


... as if nothing is happening.  And it is!

Paul Mitchell, Jumbuktu 2006

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#10 2008-03-10 13:04:16

Seth
Member
From: Scarsdale, NY
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 270

Re: Tips for a beginner?

Kiku and Nyokai have posted very illuminating descriptions of the various shakuhachi schools. 

But their posts are lacking in that they neglected to include two very important points:

1) It is vital to always speak about other people's shakuhachi schools in negative and disparaging terms.   This is especailly true when talking about the so called Tozan school.

2) It is obvious that the Jin Nyodo lineage has demonstrated its clear superiority to all other schools of shakuhachi playing.  And this is doubly true when compared to Tozan.

Warm regards,

Seth

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#11 2008-03-10 13:19:16

Vevolis
Member
From: Toronto, ON
Registered: 2007-12-24
Posts: 175
Website

Re: Tips for a beginner?

Seth wrote:

Kiku and Nyokai have posted very illuminating descriptions of the various shakuhachi schools. 

But their posts are lacking in that they neglected to include two very important points:

1) It is vital to always speak about other people's shakuhachi schools in negative and disparaging terms.   This is especailly true when talking about the so called Tozan school.

2) It is obvious that the Jin Nyodo lineage has demonstrated its clear superiority to all other schools of shakuhachi playing.  And this is doubly true when compared to Tozan.

Warm regards,

Seth

Thus making the journey towards the school that's just right for you, intensely confusing. wink I'm going to develope the "woo" school. When I blow into my Shakuhachi, it occasionally makes a subtle "woo" sound followed by harmonic overtones you'd normally hear on subway transit brakes. People will have so many negative things to say about it, it will clearly stand out from the rest. (Kidding smile

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#12 2008-03-10 15:39:41

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: Tips for a beginner?

Vevolis wrote:

Thus making the journey towards the school that's just right for you, intensely confusing.

Sorry to make it so complicated. As teachers we should be making it simple for beginners, not complicated.

Well, the choice is usually dictated by what teacher is available to you, and that's fine. It's all wonderful music and wonderful work/play.

Maybe this will help:

1. Meian honkyoku is the raw material, from which there have been several stylistic offshoots, such as Dokyoku.

2. The 36 honkyoku of the Kinko school are a formal codification of some of the honkyoku that were floating around in Kinko's day. Kinko people also play lots of other music.

3. Tozan is a newer school with its own approach. Their honkyoku was composed rather than traditional, and they emphasize gaikyoku and modern music.

Don't worry about better. There is no better.

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#13 2008-03-10 19:21:49

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: Tips for a beginner?

jumbuk wrote:

Kiku Day wrote:

Then there is dokyoku. A lot of non-Japanese players seem to have taken this concept to their hearts - so it is widely used. Dokyoku in reality refers to the style of Watazumi Doso. But who plays dokyoku? None of the Watazumi students I have met calls their music dokyoku (I am not saying nobody would say they play dokyoku). I think Yokoyama Katsuya may have used this word. When I organised the first Shakuhachi Summer School in London 2006, I Kakizakai and Furuya senseis, what to call their style, they asked me not to use that word. They told me Yokoyama didn't use it anymore. The Yokoyama people in Japan refer to their playing as koten honkyoku (as everybody else). I would probably say, it is koten honkyoku learned from Yokoyama, which is a powderful mix of kinko and Wtazumi-do.

Kiku

So as soon as I read this, I started noticing Dokyoku players!  On this forum, at least two qualified teachers (Takegawa and Chikuzen) include the word in the text beside their avatars.  Also, Perry Yung uses the term to describe his style that he learned from his teacher.

Would any of these three gentlemen care to comment?

They all are dokyoku players in a sense that the term is very accepted among non-Japanese, and perhaps some Japanese are still using it too. But most people in Japan including Yokoyama Katsuya and his immediate students,  don't seem to use that term about themselves anymore . But not a big deal, I mean... people can call themselves what they want... We were explicitly asked not to use the name dokyoku when we were organising the London summer school. That message came too late and you saw perhaps on the fingering chart that we did indeed call it dokyoku. We haven't used the term dokyoku in Europe since 2006 due to the wish of KSK. I was passing on this information - not claiming that people who feel they are dokyoku players are something different. But dokyoku as one of the 3 main schools is a little far out... smile

Seth wrote:

Kiku and Nyokai have posted very illuminating descriptions of the various shakuhachi schools. 

But their posts are lacking in that they neglected to include two very important points:

1) It is vital to always speak about other people's shakuhachi schools in negative and disparaging terms.   This is especailly true when talking about the so called Tozan school.

2) It is obvious that the Jin Nyodo lineage has demonstrated its clear superiority to all other schools of shakuhachi playing.  And this is doubly true when compared to Tozan.

Warm regards,

Seth

Not sure what you mean? But sounds fun! smile

I agree that the differences of fingerings are small. Although I only play jinashi shakuhachi, I have many students who come with yuu or with a jinuri shakuhachi. I usually teach them the different fingering techniques that can occur between the two types of shakuhachi. Then we choose what works best for the students flute and for the person. I do this also with my students who play jinashi. The variation is huge and it is one of the beauties in shakuhachi. 'Ok, I finger that note like this but for you the other fingering works better'.
The fingering chart was only meant as an aide for people to be able to skim from the school they were taught in a class to see what the equivalent is in their own school's system if they got confused.
I play sankyoku/shinkyoku/contemporary compositions on my jinashi... so a 'dokyoku' flute can anything you want to do with it - probably.
And yes, a teacher that can guide you to the fingerings and techniques that work on one's particular flute is vital.


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#14 2008-03-13 15:47:52

chikuzen
Dai Shihan/Dokyoku
From: Cleveland Heights,OH 44118
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 402
Website

Re: Tips for a beginner?

Nobody really plays like Watazumi. What we call Dokyoku is really better termed Yokoyamafied Watazumi style playing. Which is more Yokoyama-style than Watazumi style. Calling it Dokyoku is to refer to the roots of Yokoyama sensei's study. When I studied with Yokoyama sensei I asked him the same question,"since we don't learn the 36 Kinko Sect Honkyoku, what are we studying and how should we term it"? He answered that we write our Ro Tsu Re Chi Ri like Kinko and use the same scores for Sankyoku and Fukuda Rando, so we call ourselves Kinko but play much differently when it comes to Honkyoku. He also stated that he really is the Iemoto of his sect, the Chikushinkai group I guess.  Yokoyama sensei's roots are also from his father who was a Kinko Sect player. It is not to say clearly what traditional strain these two players are upholding as they are not part of an organization that has a long history behind it like Meain and Kinko.The honkyoku songs come mostly from Meian but have gone through 2 strong personalities and have become styles concerned with self expression. Yokoyama sensei wants the music that his students teach to be associated with his dojo or umbrella group which he terms the International Shakuhachi Society so they are instructed not to use the word Dokyoku. It doesn't fit.

Last edited by chikuzen (2008-03-13 15:51:34)


Michael Chikuzen Gould

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#15 2008-03-13 16:38:45

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Tips for a beginner?

Thanks Michael that's very useful information. It is problematic when people insist Yokoyama style is Watazumi style when that's only one part of the equation. In many significant ways they are actually opposed. They are both good examples of a strong individual personality.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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