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#26 2008-03-07 20:13:59

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

Lance wrote:

If one is wealthy, great, buy a bunch of bamboo Shakuhachi until you find one that fits you just right and 'feels' right when you play it. If not, the Yuu should be resoundingly recommended (and it does seem to be when reading the testimonials from professionals on the Yuu website).

I want to re-iterate what Chikuzen wrote in reference to Lance's quote and also in light of the way shakuhachi are bought and thought of here in Japan.
The idea of finding a shakuhachi that fits you just right and 'feels' right when you play it, is something that is not usually judged by the novice player (in Japan) simply because their technical abilities haven't been honed sufficiently to make a knowledgeable judgment.  This is assumed as a part of the traditions of the teacher/student relationship.  For this reason, new players here don't even consider selecting their own instrument on their own.  A teacher will usually recommend an instrument or group of instruments from which the novice might choose.  The teacher considers it their responsibility to the student to select an instrument that will be the best option for the student with respect to playability, tonal quality, aesthetic appeal and cost and will give the student the greatest possibility for growth.  Often, what may 'feel' good or comfortable or fitting to a novice is merely a reflection of the player's immediate limitations, though not particularly or necessarily seen in that light by that person. 
A knowledgeable and well experienced player will judge the playability of an instrument against their accumulated experiences, thus what 'feels' right to a novice may not to an experienced player and visa versa.  With that in mind, from a perspective of price performance, giving in to the judgement of a more learned person seems the right way to go.
Shakuhachi learners here in Japan rarely buy second or third instruments until several years after beginning with the instrument the teacher originally selected for the student.  Even then, the student will ask the teacher's opinion.
Chikuzen wrote:
"The yuu is a good starter flute if you don't mind plastic. Whether bamboo or plastic, once you're beyond that point,  seek out advise from a qualified teacher/player WHO HAS AN OBJECTIVE VIEWPOINT and much experience. Not a friend or craftsman."

This is VERY GOOD ADVISE.


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#27 2008-03-08 08:45:52

chuck091956
Member
From: Arizona, USA
Registered: 2006-07-02
Posts: 32
Website

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

It was mentioned much earlier in this topic,
"For good reason Japanese place a high value on finely made goods that are the product of the hands of a talented craftsman."
"The yuu, on the other hand, is a mass produced peice of plastic.  It has zero craftsmanship or uniqueness."

Some thoughts on these earlier comments. Earlier in my life I worked with mechanical engineers who had many years of training and many more of experience. The company where we worked produced very some unique products, ones only make by them.

The process of getting precise shapes to come out of a mold is more than numbers and engineering calculations. It also involves knowing the personality of the material being used to mold with, its heating and shrinking characteristics and it's life role after it's been molded. Every single mold has some amount of adjusting, some a lot, before the final mold and molding process will result in the correctly made finished item. The dimensions of the mold typically are not what the dimensions of the finished item.

Shrinkage in the molding material varies depending the material and on the thickness of the area cooling. If the Yuu had been a even walled pipe of uniform thickness, that would have been a much easier task to create. The Yuu's shape that is modeled after a thick root ended flute added additional problems in it's creation.

Not to go on too long, in my opinion the Yuu is a finely made product, by its ability to create the music it was designed for. I believe it was created by true craftsman who applied years of training and experience. Also because there is no other flute like it now made, I would call it very unique.

I'm a new player of only 3 years so I make no comments on any of the possible differences between bamboo and plastic, I'm not yet to the point where I could ever tell the difference. I just wanted to voice my feelings that the Yuu should receive credit as a finely made and unique flute, created by craftsmen.


Chuck Peck

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#28 2008-03-08 09:59:05

Seth
Member
From: Scarsdale, NY
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 270

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

chuck091956 wrote:

It was mentioned much earlier in this topic,
"For good reason Japanese place a high value on finely made goods that are the product of the hands of a talented craftsman."
"The yuu, on the other hand, is a mass produced peice of plastic.  It has zero craftsmanship or uniqueness."


Not to go on too long, in my opinion the Yuu is a finely made product, by its ability to create the music it was designed for. I believe it was created by true craftsman who applied years of training and experience. Also because there is no other flute like it now made, I would call it very unique.

I just wanted to voice my feelings that the Yuu should receive credit as a finely made and unique flute, created by craftsmen.

From an objective perspective there is no way to say that any of your comments are wrong as the adjectives "unique" and "fine" have no objective criteria whatsoever.  It's all a matter of perspective.

However - if one would take 20 yuus and 20 shigemis and 20 gyoksuis and 20 yungs and did some comparative testing of all the flutes one would discover a tremendous amount of consistency among the yuus and a tremendous amount of variance of the shakuhachi that were hand made by the traditional makers.   And that variance of sound among those made by traditional makers is, for me and I would venture many people here, a very appealing part of playing the shakuhachi.

To phrase the above in a different way:  THE yuu is, yes, unique.  But A yuu, is not unique at all. There are a 1,000 other yuus just like it. THE yuu was designed by a craftsman, yes.  But A yuu was produced by a plastic molding machine.

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#29 2008-03-08 11:31:30

Lance
Member
Registered: 2008-01-18
Posts: 74

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

Discussion of the Yuu will undoubtedly bring out the 'plastic' vs. bamboo view, which is valid. The very thing that Seth finds appealing, that bamboo flutes will always show significant variance and subtle and not so subtle differences in sound, make the Yuu even MORE attractive to those who don't have the funds to experiment with bamboo. At least with the Yuu you know what you've bought.

The bamboo flutes I bought were pretty low end, but were all I could afford. (To me spending nearly $300 on a flute is a BIG deal), and those bamboo flutes don't compare with the playability of the Yuu. That's my only point really, that a beginner can't go wrong with the Yuu, and they are so nicely made, and substantial, and play so well, that even an advanced player, with expensive bamboo, can't go wrong with a Yuu as a travel flute.

I can't agree more on the astethic qualities of bamboo, just holding my root end $285 bamboo is wonderful.

Viewed another way, with molded plastic (as proved by the potential demonstrated with the Yuu), it is possible, I think, to capture the greatness of a well made $5000 bamboo flute that would be beyond the reach of most people's finances, which makes 'plastic' a great thing (I'm not saying the Yuu captured that quality, but the potential is there for a future plastic flute to do it)...  I wish the makers of the Yuu, or others, were continuing to experiment with other models, sooner or later they would be able to recreate a Shakuhachi that would be AMAZING, not simply wonderful.

Bottom line, if you think a Yuu sounds like plastic, listen to a professional play one...  I think you'd have to be honest that in a blindfolded listening test, you couldn't tell.

(Maybe someone on this forum could conduct such a test, posting sound files of several bamboo 1.8 D flutes + the Yuu... and see if people can tell... the player would have to be very unbiased to make this work I think)


“The firefly is a good lesson in light, and darkness”

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#30 2008-03-08 15:55:46

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

Lance wrote:

l... the player would have to be very unbiased to make this work I think)

Yep, or he or she could wear a blindfold, gloves and earplugs for the test....


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#31 2008-03-08 18:37:14

Lance
Member
Registered: 2008-01-18
Posts: 74

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

"... and earplugs..."

Now that was funny.


“The firefly is a good lesson in light, and darkness”

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#32 2008-03-08 21:34:17

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

For various reasons, some folks here like plastic shakuhachi type flutes and seem to focus on the ones called Yuu.  So be it.
Is a Yuu a shakuhachi?  It depends on how one defines shakuhachi.  If bamboo comes into the definition, then the Yuu definitely isn't a shakuhachi, but rather an imitation that could be considered in the same class of flute as a shakuhachi.  Is this discussion reflecting a cultural reality?
It kind of reminds me of an experience I once had bringing a Canadian friend visiting Japan to a hot spring bath.  I explained some of the fineries of etiquette for communal bathing and let him on his own.  But when he came to the outside bath, all eyes kind of moved toward him not because he was a fine specimen of a human male body or because he was non-Japanese, but because he was wearing bathing trunks.  Of course, all others (all men) were completely naked as is the custom.  My friend was looking somewhat defensive and trying to act casual, while others were  thinking as was told to me later 'He must be shy, but  he's missing something in the experience.'  The next year he visited again, and when we went to the very same hot spring, he was completely naked and enjoyed the experience.  Would he go back to wearing bathing trunks if he tried again?  I doubt it.  The moral of this story: bathing trunks in their place.
This is also reminiscent of Ornette Colman playing a plastic sax.  Nobody disputed Ornette's playing ability.  But the plastic seemed to 'cheapen' the idea of the saxophone to many people's eyes and ears and I suspect that is what Ornette was trying do in a way. A political statement.   He was challenging conventions.  There may have also been a question of available funds.   Did the trend catch on?  No.  Most serious saxophonists want well made, metallic saxophones and not plastic ones and usually go for tried and trusted makes.  I'm guessing that in as much as some folks feel the need to defend the Yuu, when given the choice without any strings attached (if such a thing could happen) they would choose the well made bamboo model over the plastic one.
This conjurs a funny Daliesque image of Ornette Colman standing naked but for a pair of bathing trunks on a large half shell playing a shakuhachi (probably a Yuu) while bloated dead fish float on the surface of the churning sea around him and thick, looming storm clouds hang ominously in the distance with the faces of famous shakuhachi players from the past peering down with facial expressions ranging from titillation to disgust.


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#33 2008-03-10 02:26:34

Lance
Member
Registered: 2008-01-18
Posts: 74

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

Well. I am a beginner. I am so new to the Shakuhachi that I hesitate to offer an opinion, but, perhaps the view of a beginner is important afterall, to perhaps push aside the curtain and see the Wizard behind it....  I may have been reading more snootyness into the above comment than is actually present, but to question whether a Yuu is even a Shakuhachi... kidding right? That seems to be the pinnacle of snobbery. Only a Mercedes is a car perhaps? And of course it isn't really baseball if you use an aluminum bat... And of course a carbon fiber Cello isn't actually a Cello....  come on.

Given boxes full of money I might never touch my Yuu again... since I too understand the nature of bamboo and its relavance to the Shakuhachi... but to most of us the world of the Shakuhachi just isn't open to us unless we find an affordable (inexpensive) Shakuhachi. I don't know enough about playing to properly judge the Yuu... but I do believe the testimonials of the experienced players on the Yuu website regarding the Yuu, and they seem to readily accept the Yuu as a 'Shakuhachi', and even a very good Shakuhachi!

This discussion of the Yuu is important afterall I think... to help some of you (who would never stoop so low as to play a plastic Shakuhachi, and choose to chide those who embrace it), to help you to look into yourself a bit... perhaps to sit at a wall and contemplate it, until you understand the wall... and realize that a wall is still a wall, whether made of stone, or the cotton of swimming trunks.

Last edited by Lance (2008-03-10 02:30:34)


“The firefly is a good lesson in light, and darkness”

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#34 2008-03-10 03:51:26

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

Lance wrote:

I may have been reading more snootyness into the above comment than is actually present, but to question whether a Yuu is even a Shakuhachi... kidding right? That seems to be the pinnacle of snobbery.

I guess it could be interpreted as snootiness, but I found it to be a welcome viewpoint from a pro when up until now I haven't seen any comments with anything but the highest praise for the instrument and often at the same time bashing other low price alternatives. There are probably good reasons for it, one is that it's got to be difficult for teachers to constantly have to tell would-be students that they can't use their low price shakuhachi for lessons where if the student came to them with a Yuu they can work with them right away.

As far as the comparison testing, it's impractical, and all you have to do is listen to what some pros can do with the Yuu to realize that it can sound good. You've got to take the pros word for it that the Yuu is good for Japanese music, but it's an awful big conspiracy if it isn't. I've never gotten my hands on a Yuu, but my guess is that it isn't as satisfying to play as a bamboo designed specifically for Japanese music, however for those trained in Japanese music it is probably more satisfying to play than a folk-flute kind of bamboo shakuhachi. Also, my guess is that a player who doesn't play Japanese music would find even the folk-flute kind of bamboo more satisfying than the plastic Yuu. That's why I haven't bought one. As it is, only the instruments with severe tuning problems bother me, and even with those I tend to think that I could coax a lot more out of them.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#35 2008-03-10 09:18:33

Lance
Member
Registered: 2008-01-18
Posts: 74

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

"Also, my guess is that a player who doesn't play Japanese music would find even the folk-flute kind of bamboo more satisfying than the plastic Yuu"

* Playing 'Japanese' music means?? Lessons? Playing a standard Japanese 'song'?  I try to play 'Japanese' music, at least in a style that seems traditional to me based on listening to lots of Japanese Shakuhachi.

I also understand the bias of a teacher, and those who do 'study' traditional Shakuhachi music and 'learn songs'... I rather enjoy improvising and don't have much interest in 'learning to play traditional songs', which is not even playing the Shakuhachi to many I'm sure.

To the beginner who might find this thread and read it as a way to decide if they should get a Yuu...  I spent nearly $300 on a root end bamboo... and around $100 on a simple bamboo (Zen model by Perry Yung)... and my Yuu is a much better player than either... (and the cheaper Yung plays better than the $300 bamboo) that's the point of a Yuu vs. bamboo I think.. that you know it will play well for a small price. Bamboo is going to be rather more expensive to equal the Yuu in what it can do.

That's all. For the beginner, I don't think you can go wrong with the Yuu. For those of you who are intermediate/advanced, I think you'd be surprised at the quality and range of the Yuu if you played one, and the JOY in having a nice playing flute you can take anywhere with no worries!


“The firefly is a good lesson in light, and darkness”

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#36 2008-03-10 09:29:50

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

Jeff Cairns wrote:

But the plastic seemed to 'cheapen' the idea of the saxophone to many people's eyes and ears and I suspect that is what Ornette was trying do in a way.

This might be true -- the outsider from Texas making a statement. But what Ornette has actually said is that at the time he preferred the SOUND of the Grafton Acrylic -- he played it for musical rather than political reasons.

Charlie Parker also played a Grafton Acrylic on occasion, but only when he'd pawned his "real" horn. His plastic horn sold at auction a few years ago for some outrageous amount of money, even though it probably cost less than $100 new. So there may be a good business opportunity in lending your Yuu to a Living National Treasure for a while.

I have never heard anybody question whether a plastic sax is "really a sax," or a plastic recorder is "really a recorder." I suspect that with his completely practical approach to instrument making, Adolphe Sax would have originally used plastic if it had been available.

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#37 2008-03-10 10:27:36

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

nyokai wrote:

So there may be a good business opportunity in lending your Yuu to a Living National Treasure for a while.

You mean, like, if said Living National Treasure is a recovering junkie who's a bit down on his luck and had to pawn his shakuhachi? 

smile   smile


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#38 2008-03-10 10:44:47

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

Lance wrote:

radi0gnome wrote:

"Also, my guess is that a player who doesn't play Japanese music would find even the folk-flute kind of bamboo more satisfying than the plastic Yuu"

* Playing 'Japanese' music means?? Lessons? Playing a standard Japanese 'song'?  I try to play 'Japanese' music, at least in a style that seems traditional to me based on listening to lots of Japanese Shakuhachi.

I meant playing traditional Japanese songs. From what I understand so far there are fingerings requred for traditional Japanese music that some of the folk-flute kind of shakuhachi might not be able to play. I'm far less certain about the lessons part. In most cultures people pick up and learn music by ear, but from what people are saying on this forum Japanese music might be different.

Lance wrote:

To the beginner who might find this thread and read it as a way to decide if they should get a Yuu...  I spent nearly $300 on a root end bamboo... and around $100 on a simple bamboo (Zen model by Perry Yung)... and my Yuu is a much better player than either... (and the cheaper Yung plays better than the $300 bamboo) that's the point of a Yuu vs. bamboo I think.. that you know it will play well for a small price. Bamboo is going to be rather more expensive to equal the Yuu in what it can do.

By better player, do you mean more predictable and consistent? For some situations that might define "better", like for lessons or group classes, but for other situations I think I'd prefer cheap bamboo. Of course, if I knew Japanese traditional music and had to struggle to play it on cheap bamboo there's a chance that might not be true. I wouldn't mind hearing viewpoints from schooled players about this.       

Lance wrote:

That's all. For the beginner, I don't think you can go wrong with the Yuu. For those of you who are intermediate/advanced, I think you'd be surprised at the quality and range of the Yuu if you played one, and the JOY in having a nice playing flute you can take anywhere with no worries!

I agree with you. From what's been said on this forum the Yuu is a sure way of having something you can take lessons on and can do all the things a shakuhachi should do, and for cheap. However, I'm skeptical of the statements that the Yuu is the only mass-produced, and cheap, instrument that's any good. All it takes is one pro to make a statement like that and it becomes gospel because it's not good for pros to disagree with one another in such a small community. Until the mass-produced wooden shakuhachi are exported in the quantities the Yuu's are it's really a moot point because the Yuu's are the only mass-produced shakuhachi easily obtainable.

Last edited by radi0gnome (2008-03-10 10:47:58)


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#39 2008-03-10 11:56:00

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

radi0gnome wrote:

the Yuu's are the only mass-produced shakuhachi easily obtainable.

Not so. There are heaps of mass-produced wooden shakuhachi out there that are easily obtainable. The better ones are
are likely to be somewhat more expensve than the Yuu.

http://www.sunreed.com/Shakuhachi.htm

http://www.bamboobell.com/store.html

http://larkinam.com/product.asp?pn=SHK0 … 1205164788


eB

Last edited by edosan (2008-03-10 12:05:37)


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#40 2008-03-10 19:45:25

Naljor Creations
Member
From: Mount Shasta, CA
Registered: 2006-04-09
Posts: 15
Website

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

Neil here, from Naljor Creations / www.shakuhachiyuu.com

Wow! I just read through all these comments on the Yuu! I cannot believe the amount of time and attention that has been given to the Shakuhachi Yuu here in this forum! Geeze, if all of us were spending this same time practicing rather than debating about the qualities of the Yuu we could have mastered the honkyoku piece 'Tamuke' by now!

Friends, to me it is very simple...if you are on a limited budget and want to start your practice without spending all your time searching for and trying out various shakuhachi, that may or may not meet your needs, then the Yuu is a good, safe and practical purchase. If you have the money for a professional bamboo shakuhachi, and have a teacher to choose one for you, then this subject is not an issue and you dont need a Yuu...unless of course you want an extra shakuhachi to travel with.

Does the Yuu sound like plastic (ABS Resin)? Hmmm....that is exactly what it is made from! So I guess the answer would be yes! The sound of the Yuu is a bit denser and certainly a bit less mystical than bamboo. That is to be expected. However, if you talk to Monty Levenson, he believes the sound of a flute is created from the physics and shape of the bore, not from the material the instrument is made from. Personally, I like the mystical sound of bamboo. We all love bamboo. But not all of us can afford an expensive, well made bamboo instrument. And, not all of us are sure we are going to stick with our practice when we first start out. This is one of the main factors that makes the Yuu such a practical choice as a first step into the shakuhachi world.

Does the Yuu have potential to grow with a person as their skill increases? Can the Yuu play like a more expensive professional bamboo shakuhachi? I will leave the answers to these questions to your ears. Click on the links below and listen to Michael Chikuzen Gould playing a Shakuhachi Yuu. I handed a stock Yuu to him at a lesson I took with him in Boulder, CO. This should answer these questions rather well.
http://shakuhachiyuu.com/MP3s/Michael%2 … 0Kyoku.mp3
http://shakuhachiyuu.com/MP3s/MichaelGo … mprove.mp3

In addition, for those interested, the Shakuhachi Yuu is not just a plastic toy that gets spit out of an injection mold machine and into your hands to play. The Shakuhachi Yuu was created by a master shakuhachi player who engineered the bore precisely. It has also been explained to me that the Yuu has engineers overseeing its first stages of production, and then each Yuu goes into the hands of a professional bamboo shakuhachi tuner. So although the Yuu may not meet everyone's needs, desires or expectations, it is good to know that quite a bit of expertise, work and care went into the production of this instrument.

-Neil
Naljor Creations
Naljor Prison Dharma Service

Last edited by Naljor Creations (2008-03-12 12:20:48)

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#41 2008-03-10 22:27:25

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

Amen!

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#42 2008-03-10 22:36:53

jamesnyman
Member
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: 2005-10-23
Posts: 162

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

The Yuu, enhanced or otherwise is a fine shakuhachi. If I only had $100+ to spend and was starting out, I don't think I could make a better choice. It is good for lessons and a great shakuhachi that you can take anywhere without concern. If you only have $50 to spend, then Ken LaCosse's PVC 1.8 is also magnificent.


"The means are the ends in the making."  Mohandas K. Ghandi

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#43 2008-03-11 00:20:36

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

I don't think that anybody (including me) is suggesting a plastic shakuhachi, or a wood one, or a jade one, or a bamboo one is anything less than it is (although I am suggesting that they are not equal.)  User preference seems to indicate that bamboo is by far the construction material of choice.  It's hard to separate the cart from the horse in this instance, but in its inception, this was likely to do more with availability of bamboo and the unique 'readiness' that madake in particular lends to the construction process.  There were very few, ready-made, stout tubes in abundance at the time.  Nonetheless, it still seems to be an upheld opinion in the shakuhachi playing world, which because of language and cultural restrictions is in no way justly represented in this forum.  The minority of players represented here reflect a unique set of circumstances:  circumstances, few of which exist in the land of the shakuhachi's origin.  Some of these circumstances include attempting to learn an instrument that is traditionally made from a material that doesn't do well in other than the immediate environment that it grew in.  Or, not growing up with the same cultural 'baggage' that people grow and grew with in the land of the instrument's origin which is and was often an important factor in considering the daunting prospect of learning the instrument in the first place. 
All thanks and credit goes to the people involved in creating the Yuu and any consistently well made, rugged and inexpensive version of the shakuhachi, simply because it addresses the needs of this unique group and is instrumental in spreading the beauty inherent in this instrument's sound and repertoire, not to mention the possibilities of ultimately enriching the world with personal creative expression through an instrument that wouldn't otherwise be taken up due to its many restrictive and temperamental aspects.  It definitely serves a purpose and serves it well.
Happiness to all.


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#44 2008-03-11 01:16:28

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

My favorite line in this thread, to date (and likely to remain so, going forward):


Naljor Creations wrote:

Wow! I just read through all these comments on the Yuu! I cannot believe the amount of time and attention that has been given to the Shakuhachi Yuu here in this forum! Geeze, if all of us were spending this same time practicing rather than debating about the qualities of the Yuu we could have mastered the honkyoku piece 'Tamuke' by now!

This horse seems, to me, to be quite dead, even a bit fragrant...



eB

Last edited by edosan (2008-03-11 01:17:39)


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#45 2008-03-11 06:49:33

Yooper
Member
From: Michigan, on the WI border
Registered: 2007-11-26
Posts: 57

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

I am a beginner.  I have a Yuu and I like it a lot.  I won't take the time to praise its virtues as that's already been done to death here.  But I also have a cast bore student model that cost about three times as much, and  I can't help noticing that the bore is plastic.  Does that mean that the much-praised bamboo on the outside is purely decorative, and functionally irrelevant?


"Simple and artless."

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#46 2008-03-11 09:54:53

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

Yooper wrote:

Does that mean that the much-praised bamboo on the outside is purely decorative, and functionally irrelevant?

According to some points of view, that's exactly what it means, but it's not quite as simple as that. The cast-bore approach is an attempt to make shakuhachi (jiari, or classic modern shakuhachi, in particular) by replicating the bore profiles of known 'good' shakuhachi by measuring the bores of those instruments, creating a positive shape of those profiles, and using it to shape new bores by casting them, instead of laboriously building up the bores with ji.

Whether the bamboo affects the sonic quality of the fllute one way or another is a discussion that will continue ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

eB

Last edited by edosan (2008-03-11 15:52:59)


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#47 2008-03-11 10:47:30

Lance
Member
Registered: 2008-01-18
Posts: 74

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

Just looking at the number of views at this topic, this was a worthy discussion!

I hope everyone listens to the sound clip offered above!

This is wonderful forum, and the Shakuhachi is an amazing instrument.

For beginners looking for a Shakuhachi, this is a great read.


“The firefly is a good lesson in light, and darkness”

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#48 2008-03-11 15:52:21

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

So comforting to know we have an alert and capable editor in the crowd.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#49 2008-03-13 16:23:46

chikuzen
Dai Shihan/Dokyoku
From: Cleveland Heights,OH 44118
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 402
Website

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

From a teacher's prespective (and this is a fact) I've seen a lot of people start shakuhachi who might not have because of the affordability of the Yuu. Another fact, when I "endorse" the Yuu I'm not commenting about the quality of other instruments (marrying one person isn't dumping on all the other ladies in the world). I'm trying to help people get started and hope they begin with a flute that they can do some study on. I also think any beginner's flute should not be used for more than a 6 months to a year, then, as Tairaku suggests, it should become the rugged outdoors flute for all occasions. Also, everyone should keep their beginner's flute and after playing about 20 years take it out and play it again.


Michael Chikuzen Gould

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#50 2008-03-13 19:02:02

Musgo da Pedra
Member
From: South of Brazil
Registered: 2007-12-02
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Yuu shortcomings?

chikuzen wrote:

... Also, everyone should keep their beginner's flute and after playing about 20 years take it out and play it again.

I will keep "safe" around those "archaic" flutes I made about some years ago ( in which I started to blow and with which I tried to unify the existence, mine and it's existence) , to play again, when I think that I am playing good enough...



            If this day comes, I talk about the day in which I will suppose to think that I am playing good enough; please, anyone that hear, give me a shake or a hand-slap in the nape, if worst than that (please Life, keep me away from that) , crash a root in my face , because I will be dreaming away from myself and because anyway not at all outside, me, I,  don't know it what was been played was what it was when it was what it was or if I was or if anyone was me or no... maybe? 


And I like to play... the thought "I am playing good enough" will not kill me !!!! ehehehhe   



   : {p



Anyway, it made me stay with those flutes a little more time...  ( I like these flutes and will be a lot of fun play on these in the future)...

A big hug to everybody!       


Peace....

Last edited by Musgo da Pedra (2008-03-14 08:46:41)


Omnia mea mecum porto

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