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#1 2008-09-08 07:52:59

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

miking or not in large recital halls

I have a question for the pros who have experience playing solo in large recital halls.  In Japan I'm used to playing for a small audience of maybe 10-40 people, sometimes unmiked (for recitals with koto in a community center), but often miked -- in pubs, coffee shops, music clubs etc.  I only play in a big hall (big for me, that is; 500-600 seats) about once a year and that is usually with a large ensemble, but even then I usually notice the concert hall staff placing several mikes on the stage.  I've landed a university gig in the U.S.A. in a couple of weeks; the sponsors don't know much about shakuhachi and say I won't need a mike as the recital hall has nice acoustics.  It's a 350 seat hall...  I'm just wondering what is your experience in halls of that size; are you usually miked, or not?  I remember seeing shakuhachi players in a 500 seat hall here in Kochi; Akikazu Nakamura, among others, and I think they were using microphones.  Of course I'll try and check out the acoustics in the hall before playing; but if it's full of people that also can change things a good bit.

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#2 2008-09-08 08:22:43

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

Dan, probably it's a good idea to go with a mic, but be certain that the sound techs don't try to over-reverb your sound.  It will drown out definition and dynamic.  A very small amount might be necessary, but ere on the side of 'not-too-wetness'.  All the best with the gig.


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#3 2008-09-08 09:11:18

Kerry
Member
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 183

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

Daniel Ryudo wrote:

Akikazu Nakamura, among others, and I think they were using microphones.

I saw Akikazu Nakamura at Middle Tennessee State University back in 2006 in a 300+ seat space and it wasn't miked at all. People were so attentive, you could here a Q-tip drop in that place. It made one listen even closer. smile


The temple bell stops, but the sound keeps coming out of the flowers. -Basho

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#4 2008-09-08 09:16:29

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

With acoustic instruments it is always preferable to play without amplification if the sound is sufficient. Unfortunately it's impossible to find this out until you play the gig. I've performed shakuhachi for 3000 people without amplification with no trouble. You may be playing in a 350 seat hall but you don't know how many people will actually be there. People absorb sound and create noise. Theoretically you should be able to do it acoustically if it's a good sounding room and the audience is attentive. If there is no added expense involved with setting up a mic and turning on the PA the thing to do would be to go to soundcheck and see how it is. If you feel like you need help just set up a bit of sound reinforcement. My gut tells me you won't need it though. I just played with a Taiko group in a similar sized venue, packed house and even competing against the drums I didn't need a mic. Good luck with the gig!


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#5 2008-09-08 19:54:12

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

Three thousand people with no amplification, wow!  Thanks for the advice Jeff, Kerry, and Tairaku; I'll try to go and soundcheck beforehand.

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#6 2008-09-08 20:01:09

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

Yeah, try it out without mics and with a few good pairs of ears to judge out in the hall. I was SO sure I needed micing when I played November Steps... I mean a whole symphony orchestra behind me (not that we were playing together most of the time) but a hall with 1000 people in.... The people in the orchestra were sure both I and the biwa (played by Ueda Junko) didn't need mic. I was very worried and the conductor was not at all convinced... but it was really the best choice. I am sure your sound will be best without mic - unless it is an unusually dry room - which concert halls usually aren't. Be careful though at universities. Sometimes they only have lectures halls they use as concert halls and then it can be a very dry hall.
Have fun performing and tell us how it all went!


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#7 2008-09-08 20:07:48

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

Daniel Ryudo wrote:

Three thousand people with no amplification, wow!

Depends entirely upon the hall and the audience. I did that a few times in really nice concert halls with great acoustics.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#8 2008-09-08 23:10:36

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
Website

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

Hi Daniel, When ever my performance art group SLANT tours, we rely on the Tech Director of the venue to suggest what kind of sound reinforcement is necessary. As mentioned, every space is different. A good TD will know their space well.

It's interesting how sometimes a small space like a bar can need a lot of sound reinforcement while a greek theater can require none at all.

Of course, it doesn't hurt to be prepared smile
Best of luck! perry


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

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#9 2008-09-09 06:28:59

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

Thanks, guys.  The Tech Director...will have to remember that.  I'll tell you how it goes.  So you played "November Steps" with orchestra, Kiku; that must have been a great experience; I love the shakuhachi and biwa parts in that; interesting graphic notation that Takemitsu devised for Yokoyama Katsuya's solo.  Where did you play it?  I remember Kakizakai sensei saying that he had performed it both in St. Petersburg and in Vietnam.

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#10 2008-09-09 10:23:28

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

I played January last year in Odense, Denmark with Odense Symphony Orchestra (if you guys have no clue where Odense is [and I don't blame you for that], then it is the city where Hans Christian Andersen was born.... oh the city of fairy tales..). The conductor was Lan Shui from China, who is based in Europe.
Playing NS is amazing, and an experience I hope for all serous shakuhachi players to have. To sit there in the middle while the orchestra is all around you is really something (the orchestra is divided into two string sections with the percussion and wood winds/brass in between, so the soloists are really somewhat in the middle). Takemitsu's orchestration is mastery.
Anyway, that's the past.
Looking forward to hear about your concert, Daniel.
Enjoy!


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#11 2008-09-16 16:45:42

Dun Romin
Member
From: Holland
Registered: 2008-04-19
Posts: 136

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

Daniel, toitoitoi for your gig, wishing you the best sounds.

Kiku Day wrote:

I played January last year ........Takemitsu's orchestration is mastery.
Anyway, that's the past.

That may be, Kiku, but curiousity has arisen. I've never heard this piece if music, does someone know about a registration that might be listened to?


Tomorrow's wind only blows tomorrow. (Koji)

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#12 2008-09-16 18:42:06

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

Thanks, Dun  Must get in some good practice this week...  Was checking out the acoustical properties of some buildings over at Emory University yesterday.

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#13 2008-09-16 19:16:49

Josh
PhD
From: Grand Island, NY/Nara, Japan
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 305
Website

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

The acoustics in Sydney recently at the WSF were amazing! I personally thought Verrbrugen Hall actually had too much echo for honkyoku, so it was really important to get there ahead of time and adjust to it.  The main thing was the Ma. Basically my 4 min. song became 5 min.  If you didn't add what seemed like an exaggerated ma then the faster techniques and the phrases beginnings and endings would overlap and become jumbled.  Really listening to my sound as I was playing helped alot, a skill not yet mastered though wink 
I thought the smaller halls were perfect acoustically though (maybe held around 250 people?).
Brian's song, although not a honkyoku (sorry I can't remember the title of the song), Al's Daibosatsu and of couse my teacher's Koku all stood out in my mind as being great performances and having good, clear acoustics.

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#14 2008-09-16 20:11:39

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

Josh wrote:

Brian's song, although not a honkyoku (sorry I can't remember the title of the song)

Solo one or the group one?


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#15 2008-09-16 21:04:59

Josh
PhD
From: Grand Island, NY/Nara, Japan
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 305
Website

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

Damn, I only caught the group one!  Great stuff that really livened the place up.  What was the solo one and how did it go?

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#16 2008-09-16 21:37:40

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: miking or not in large recital halls

Josh wrote:

Damn, I only caught the group one!  Great stuff that really livened the place up.  What was the solo one and how did it go?

I did Coltrane's "Living Space" with the group and Albert Ayler's "Change Has Come" solo. The Ayler tune was played as a honkyoku. The acoustics were great in those recital halls and it was wonderful to be able to easily run from place to place at will to hear different things. Sydney Conservatorium was a great venue for the festival. But as you found out you have to play the room as well, not just the instrument.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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