Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

radi0gnome · 2008-12-28 13:50:30

I've got a 7 hole jiari 2.0 (the Senzan I got from Jeff Cairns) that plays fine by my standards, probably the best playing flute I have except maybe for a wide-bore 2.4 hocchiku that's a totally different animal. However, when I try to blow through all the harmonics on Ro, the 3rd harmonic is missing and instead of getting the overtone series C, C-2nd octave, G, C-3rd octave, and E, I get C, C-2nd octave, C-3rd octave, and E. If I play Chi in kan I can quickly close the remaining holes and get the G harmonic to sound but it's still difficult and even more difficult to hold it.

I thought this might be due to it being a 7 hole flute, so I tried it on a very inexpensive wooden 7 hole 1.8 I got from Ebay and the 3rd harmonic (A on the 1.8) comes out relatively easily. This suggests that the problem, and that's if it really is a problem, isn't because of the extra holes messing with the bore. Does anyone have any idea what's going on? Also, is it a problem or is this not a requirement for a good playing flute? I wouldn't be so mystified by this if it was a jinashi because in those you can expect how well the harmonics play to be somewhat unpredictable, but on a jiari I wasn't expecting this at all.

Jeff Cairns · 2008-12-29 03:21:57

Hi Charlie,
Are you able to play ha, san no ha and yon no ha which would be C, C#, D on your flute? I'm not sure that being able to play or not being able to play those harmonics could be equated with a problem unless of course you intend to play those harmonics for whatever reason. In other words, as far as I know, that doesn't constitute a problem under normal circumstances. It likely alludes to a peculiarity in the bore, however that peculiarity doesn't necessarily point to a bad thing (unless you need to play those harmonics.) It might be the reason the sound of that flute is good.

radi0gnome · 2008-12-29 09:02:53

Jeff Cairns wrote:
Hi Charlie,
Are you able to play ha, san no ha and yon no ha which would be C, C#, D on your flute? I'm not sure that being able to play or not being able to play those harmonics could be equated with a problem unless of course you intend to play those harmonics for whatever reason. In other words, as far as I know, that doesn't constitute a problem under normal circumstances. It likely alludes to a peculiarity in the bore, however that peculiarity doesn't necessarily point to a bad thing (unless you need to play those harmonics.) It might be the reason the sound of that flute is good.

Yes, I can get those higher notes and into the 3rd octave a little, I don't know the fingerings to go very far into the 3rd octave though. After doing a little googling I found an article that says a sharp chi makes those high notes play easier, and on the 2.0 chi is a bit sharp so maybe that is what's going on. I just checked the wooden flute that I'm able to get to that harmonic easily on and, unlike the 2.0, chi is not sharp on that flute, the higher notes don't sound as easily and there isn't much of a 3rd octave at all.

I'll have to check on other flutes that I have, but aside from another wooden flute that plays pretty decently the other two jiari have problems that would throw other variables into any experimentation. It's not that I play through harmonic series much for musical purposes, I usually do it just when I'm noodling to see if I can do it and it's supposed to be a good exercise, and I was surprised when I tried it on this new flute and didn't get the expected results. Like I said in my original post I wasn't sure if it would be considered a problem, at the very least it's an interesting curiousity.

Last edited by radi0gnome (2008-12-29 09:06:05)

marek · 2008-12-29 10:32:39

WHAT are you talking about?

No, seriously I don't have a clue. Could you please elaborate on blowing specific harmonics on individual notes? Are you talking about fundamentals?

Thanks a lot.

Marek

nyokai · 2008-12-29 11:59:07

radi0gnome wrote:
I don't know the fingerings to go very far into the 3rd octave though.

See http://nyokai.com/tips/index.php?n=Tips.DaiKanNotes

radi0gnome · 2008-12-29 12:07:04

fouw wrote:
WHAT are you talking about?
Are you talking about these annoying things like when one wants to play ro - tsu meri (kan) and what comes out is ro - the pitch of go no ha?

K

When you blow lightly with all holes closed you get ro in otsu, or D on a 1.8, that's the fundamental. Overblow and you get ro in kan, again D, that's what I was calling the 2nd harmonic because it's the second note in the overtone series, maybe my wording is incorrect and that's actually the 1st harmonic, but for now just humor me and agree that it's the 2nd harmonic and the 1st harmonic is the fundamental. Overblow again and on some flutes you get the note the fifth above that, or A, it would be close to chi in kan however it sounds different, sort of like ro in kan with all the holes closed sounds different than the otsu note you get when all the holes are opened but is still the same note. Overblow again and you get the third octave D on a 1.8, or go no ha. Overblow again and you should get something close to an F# above that last D.

On this particular flute I'm finding it close to impossible to get the what would be the A in the series on a 1.8. From what I've experienced with my other jiari or wood flutes is that all the harmonics can be played, they vary in how easy it is to get them to sound, but it's not nearly as elusive as on this flute. On jinashi flutes it's much more unpredictable, some of the harmonics might be out of tune or completely non-existent.

Blowing through this harmonic series on silver flutes is used mostly as exercise to improve tone, however there are some modern compositions that use them as an extended technique. When I took a lesson from Tairaku, the one and only lesson I've had so far, he showed me a similar exercise for shakuhachi. So, even though there are many differences between shakuhachi and silver flute, this is one area where you might say a flute is a flute is a flute.

I'm really sorry that I might be confusing some people because I still don't know the Japanese note names, but I'm currently working on that, thanks to some helpful people here on this forum.

Last edited by radi0gnome (2008-12-29 12:09:45)

Dun Romin · 2008-12-30 14:55:45

I toy with overblowing too, radi0gnome, and found that on some shakuhachi you can easily get the whole range you described, but on others the fifth can be real hard to get by overblowing alone. First I had the idea that it was the placing of the holes in combi with the bore-width, but I'm no maker. Later I also had the experience that some days you succeed in overblowing all the harmonics, on other days you will not. I can imagine very well that a slight difference in costitution might take care of a difference in the air column moving through the shakuhachi. All is only speculation. So I just hope sombody comes up with the ever-working excersice or explanation.

geni · 2008-12-30 15:50:52

make sure you cover all the holes well. Besides that, have fun looking for the 5th;-)

Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

#1 2008-12-28 13:50:30

Harmonics - I'm missing one

#2 2008-12-29 03:21:57

Re: Harmonics - I'm missing one

#3 2008-12-29 09:02:53

Re: Harmonics - I'm missing one

Jeff Cairns wrote:

#4 2008-12-29 10:32:39

Re: Harmonics - I'm missing one

#5 2008-12-29 11:59:07

Re: Harmonics - I'm missing one

radi0gnome wrote:

#6 2008-12-29 12:07:04

Re: Harmonics - I'm missing one

fouw wrote:

#7 2008-12-30 14:55:45

Re: Harmonics - I'm missing one

#8 2008-12-30 15:50:52

Re: Harmonics - I'm missing one

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