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#1 2008-12-31 11:55:51

airin
Member
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Registered: 2008-10-17
Posts: 303
Website

Lessons - how often?

At the moment I am finding once a week for shakuhachi lessons too frequent for me.  What about you, how often do you have a lesson with your teacher?

To provide a little more context, let me explain that I'm not in a rush with the shakuhachi.  I have no burning goal other than to learn in a way that is respectful to my life and the instrument and to enjoy the journey moment by moment.  I play and practice daily and generally spend an hour or slightly more with the shakuhachi.  My practice sessions are well organized and focused.  However, by the time I return to my lesson I find that I am not anywhere near the level of accomplishment with regards to that week's homework as I might be if I had practiced for a week or two longer.  I then feel I should be practicing more and this creates a feeling of tension and time pressure.

I have heard some of you say that you meet with your teacher 'as needed'.  And that he/she 'loads you up with stuff to work on' after which you go away to do your practice as long as you deem necessary before returning for critque and more assignments.

I'm wondering how students feel about the frequency of lessons.  As well I am looking for input from teachers.  I know for a teacher there is the obvious fact that the more often your students see you the greater your teaching income is.  That's understandable on a practical level but if one looked at lesson scheduling without the filter of money earned/money spent, what would you as a teacher recommend and what would you as a student prefer?

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#2 2008-12-31 12:26:33

Bas Nijenhuis
Member
From: Groningen, the Netherlands
Registered: 2008-10-30
Posts: 160
Website

Re: Lessons - how often?

Hi Airin,


I have a lesson each month, for me that works quite nicely. The teacher is a 75 minutes travel away, and indeed a week seems a bit short to dive into the 'homework'. As you wrote he gives me a load of stuff to work on; pieces, excercises, longtones etc.
I think respecting you feeling about being rushed and tension is important, in this matter I believe you are your best master to tell wich interval suits you best, also because you know your personal live the best smile knowing how much time you play etcetera.
Maybe you can talk about this to your teacher? Being overtensed and stressed doesn't support the learning (and fun).
oh to add: I am a beginner just like you, we started playing I think about the same time, now about 4 months for me. (and I had 3 lessons).

greetings and a happy new shakuhachi-year!


Read more about my shakuhachi adventures at:
Bas' Shakuhachi Blog!

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#3 2008-12-31 12:49:30

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
Website

Re: Lessons - how often?

Hi Airin, Everyone's situation is unique so you should go about it in the most comfortable way.

Many musicians tend to push themselves as they are up to the challenge of learning and absorbing new material. Something to keep in mind is that many new shakuhachi students are not musicians and are not after the same thing.

When I first went to Japan, I started with four teachers and five lessons a week because I needed to learn about different styles of shakuhachi playing aside from making. At first, this amounted to about 6 hours of practice a day just to be prepared for the lessons.  After a month or so, I could practice less because I became more familiar with the notations and stylistic elements of each teacher. These days, with two little ones running about, I would be ecstatic if I could fit in one lesson a month!

I guess I am in the "lessons as needed" phase of my studies smile

Have a great new Year! Perry


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

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#4 2008-12-31 14:20:32

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Lessons - how often?

From my experience with lessons (not shakuhachi, but silver flute, voice, and social dance), the time to reduce the frequency of lessons is when your lessons turn into a guided practice instead of any information being transferred, particularly when you know how to practice well enough that a guided practice session isn't even teaching you how to practice. It takes a while to get to that point, so in the beginning weekly is fine. If you have no musical experience that phase will be a longer time than if you have already learned an instrument to a decent level of accomplishment. That phase where weekly lessons are best will be even shorter if the instrument you already learned was a similar instrument. For example if you already learned silver flute, you won't really need very many sax lessons.

Keep in mind there's a big difference between learning to control the instrument and learning the music commonly played on that instrument. Almost anyone who grew up in America will be able to make a formidable attempt at playing a Christmas song or two even on an instrument they just picked up and can barely play. However, if want to learn Japanese traditional music and you weren't exposed much to Japanese traditional music, your going to have to take lessons fairly frequently for a long time even if your instrument of choice is a kazoo.                   

airin wrote:

However, by the time I return to my lesson I find that I am not anywhere near the level of accomplishment with regards to that week's homework as I might be if I had practiced for a week or two longer.  I then feel I should be practicing more and this creates a feeling of tension and time pressure.

What you're basically saying here is that you aren't able to integrate the previous lesson before going on to the next lesson. You really need to talk to your teacher about this concern. If you can't resolve this with your teacher satisfactorily, maybe this isn't the best teacher for you. I say "maybe" because if I remember right you haven't been playing very long at all and at the beginning the learning curve for any instrument is steep and can be frustrating. You might just want to have faith that your teacher knows what they are doing for a while longer. Then, if you still feel like something is wrong, it's probably time to try a different teacher. It doesn't necessarily mean your teacher is a bad teacher, people learn differently and some teachers are more suited for some individuals more than others.

I'd suggest that aside from the focused practice to make some time for some mindless "noodling" (maybe it would best be called meditational blowing smile ). Can't get into kan? Spend some quality time in otsu. Aside from the focused practice, you need the social dance equivalent of "floor time", just get out there and have some fun. That's where a lot of the integration of the lessons happens. This is what is behind the pedagogical idea of focusing on what the student does well and growing that instead of focusing on the problem areas and trying to fix them.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#5 2008-12-31 16:08:40

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Lessons - how often?

I would take lessons every day if I had access to the right teacher. And once the student is a good player this would not be "lesson" time any more but just two good shakuhachi players playing together. I think Ronnie Seldin had the good fortune to take daily lessons with Yodo Kurahashi back in the 60's when people had more time.

But most of us do not have access to daily lessons with a teacher. Under normal circumstances I have found both as a student and as a teacher that durations longer than weekly lead to problems. The student forgets what they learned and indulge their bad habits if they don't get weekly reinforcement. So Arin, as a beginner you may feel overwhelmed with the weekly routine but I recommend sticking with it as a discipline and see how you feel about it in a year. I think you're studying with Al Ramos? You're fortunate to have access to that resource. Once a week will give you better results than sporadic lessons.

I'd like to add, since the topic of lesson fees came up, no good Sensei gets paid too much for lessons. Considering the amount of time and expense it took for them to study and get their license it's unlikely that many teachers are in the black financially from lesson fees. I'm certainly not! cool


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#6 2008-12-31 16:34:05

Bruce Hunter
Member
From: Apple Valley CA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 258

Re: Lessons - how often?

I concur with the "more is better" thoughts already expressed. Until a student's life is such that they can't *not* practice on a given day, anything less than weekly lessons is asking for trouble. My experience has been that, with lessons 2 weeks apart, one's psyche adopts a "the lesson is next week" modality, and all of a sudden, and way too soon, it's the day before lesson and not nearly enough practice has happened. Part of instruction is making a life change in the student so that daily practice is a reflexive part of their life, and it gets harder and hard to do that the further apart lessons are. This is a human activity, so we're almost necessarily operating under a bell curve, so there will always be a few who can take sporadic lessons and progress well, and/or have the daily work ethic already, but I believe we're addressing the greatest number of students here.
later...


Develop infallible technique and then lay yourself at the mercy of inspiration. - Anon.

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#7 2009-01-01 04:42:48

Dun Romin
Member
From: Holland
Registered: 2008-04-19
Posts: 136

Re: Lessons - how often?

I would rather agree with Perry. Probably depending on one's character, pre-knowledge, teacher and possibilities, lessons can work out very differently. Two years ago I started my playing with 1 lesson a month, and found that after a week I was already yearning for more material to put my teeth in; the last two weeks excersing just became boring repeat. Now, with another teacher, having lessons once a month it's almost to much, and the 'boring repetitions' are defenitly past. I even register my lessons now because there are so much things to notice and excersice that I'm happy I can relisten my lesson frequently.
I'm not thinking though that's the effect of a different teacher, you have to start always on the big lines and the more details you can master in your playing, the more there is to give attention to, the more rewarding the results, the more time ....and so on. If you don't give yourself the chance to put a solid base, how will you arrive to the next step? I think that not arriving to your next lesson satisfied with your own practise/progress tells you to practise longer, and if nessesary allow yourself more time for growing between.


Tomorrow's wind only blows tomorrow. (Koji)

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#8 2009-01-01 08:28:44

Bas Nijenhuis
Member
From: Groningen, the Netherlands
Registered: 2008-10-30
Posts: 160
Website

Re: Lessons - how often?

I concur with Dun Romin, lessons are a pretty personal things, and learning is too. It all depends on your goals as well. Playing for fun and yourself needs less specialised lesson I think then playing the traditional way and honkyoku.

Tairaku, you wrote that problems can arise when not having lessons once a week, what kind of problems or bad habits do you run into with students?
As a beginner I can indeed be more blind to that part and 'think and feel' once a month is ok, but that might be untrue...

Bas


Read more about my shakuhachi adventures at:
Bas' Shakuhachi Blog!

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#9 2009-01-01 11:58:36

airin
Member
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Registered: 2008-10-17
Posts: 303
Website

Re: Lessons - how often?

As always your perspective and insights are greatly appreciated.

I find it interesting that many students, in a variety of threads and contexts not just in this particular discussion, have mentioned the value of extra time to absorb the material and prepare for their next lesson and therefore meeting their teacher 'as needed' or on a less frequent basis than weekly whereas many teachers seem to stress, frequent, at least weekly lessons.

I have an excellent teacher.  I feel privileged to have lessons from him.  I also have no specific destination and am in no rush to get there!  As such, I want to savour this experience not feel my own pressure to rush towards the preparation for the next lesson always just days away. I am very disciplined and practice to a fault, well, sometimes to the point of obsession so I have no worries about my commitment to this instrument and the efforts required to learn to play.  It is my intention to discuss this with my teacher and request an extension of time between scheduled lessons.  Even just this idea has eased things up and I have begun to work more deeply with my drills and music and because of this, and most important of all to me, stay more present with the experience of learning to play the bamboo flute.

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#10 2009-01-01 12:05:03

Zakarius
Member
From: Taichung, TAIWAN
Registered: 2006-04-12
Posts: 361

Re: Lessons - how often?

I started with lessons (online) a year after studying on my own. I initially took lessons about once a month and had plenty of stuff to work on (which I did for 1~2 hours daily) until the next lesson. Now I schedule lessons more sporadically but often put two or three in a 2-week period as I go over specific pieces/phrases/fingerings, etc. I'm now faced with the daunting task of getting my Tsu meri, Tsu dai meri, Ro meri, and Ro dai meri in proper pitch on the fly -- seems to me that this is simply something I need to work on by myself (well, with a decent tuner). I'm making daily progress and am convinced that this will allow me to take my playing to the next level.

Hope this helps.

Zak


塵も積もれば山となる -- "Chiri mo tsumoreba yama to naru." -- Piled-up specks of dust become a mountain.

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#11 2009-01-01 13:29:29

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Lessons - how often?

another issue to condsider is playing music. It will be helpfull to play with some other instruments (duets/trio). Lessons is one thing-playing music is another. What you learn you should put t it in practise.

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