Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

Mujitsu wrote:

ABRAXAS wrote:

Sincere question:

How do these issues surrounding quality of value and shakuhachi craftsmanship apply to the concept of the Hocchiku? Where the idea is to keep the flute as natural as possible.

And, what makes a $2000+ "hocchiku" different (or better) from one merely made by someone who knows how to craft one "in tune" from appropriate material?

Good question.

Concerning quality, I think it's relative Jim. Just like jiari and smaller jinashi, there is a range of quality in hocchiku as well. Response, depth of tone, power, glow, etc. Hocchiku that play better are likely to cost more than those that don't play as well. The craftsmanship is hidden in the bore. Like any shakuhachi, it's not easy to make an exceptional one.

Ken

Thank You Ken,

In the back of my mind I'm assuming jiari requires more "craftsmanship", and on the extreme end on looking at something like "cast bore" shakuhachi, I see the point to some degree but at what point is it a fine-tuned but synthetic instrument concealed in a bamboo casing.

ABRAXAS wrote:

Thank You Ken,

In the back of my mind I'm assuming jiari requires more "craftsmanship", and on the extreme end on looking at something like "cast bore" shakuhachi, I see the point to some degree but at what point is it a fine-tuned but synthetic instrument concealed in a bamboo casing.

Yes, it's obvious visually that there is a lot of craftsmanship involved in jiari shakuahchi. Maybe "craftsmanship" is not the best word for the effort involved in hocchiku.

Shakuhachi of this style can be made quickly. However, they can also be laborious and tedious in their own way. That type of effort is often not visible.

Concerning the last question, who knows!!

Ken

(Sorry, I moved these posts to a new thread and mixed up the order)

ABRAXAS wrote:

Ken, thanks for addressing my questions (and for moving them to a more appropriate forum).

By craftsmanship, I mean primarily what was going on inside the jiari flute bore to acheive a specific kind and degree of sound, pitch, tone, tuning, volume, etc. in contrast to the jinashi/hocchiku concept which, even with a degree of craftsmanship, seems to intentionally retain more of a "happy accident" factor.

I think that's perhaps why some of us prefer Ji-nashi flutes. When you get (or make one) that has warmth and soul and a truly individual voice, AND performs well, It makes it precious, and a true joy to play and a wonder to craft.

purehappiness wrote:

There is something about making your own flute. Especially, if it works right.

And thats another thing!

I just got a hand-me-down that is a large 2.5 with a very wide bore made out of a nice root-end, but it has "issues" which I suspect may boil down to too much material of the walls between the nodes left intact with too narrow bore for the airway - in any event I'll probably be checking out a few shakuhachi manuals to pinpoint if that is the problem and if I should tinker with fixing it. That might be my first step in the direction of making simple no-frills flutes for myself.... maybe by the time I plant and grow bamboo in my yard

It is equally difficult to make a fine jiari or jinashi shakuhachi. That's why neither is plentiful. The means of manufacture are different, but the attention to detail is similar.

Seth wrote:

I would suspect that making a good jinashi takes more skill and effort then making a good jiari.

Jinashi is created only by taking away material, while for a Jiari you can take away and add.

Jinashi s like sculpting in wood, which is horribly unforgiving. One bad chisel mark and its all over. 

While Jiari making is like sculpting in clay.  If you make a mistake. no sweat, you can just slop on a bit more paste and start over...

But I actually don't know what I am talking about as I have never made a shakuhachi.  Is the above true?

Seth,

Actually, there is sometimes addition involved in jinashi (ji-mori). Usually these are dabs of ji but sometimes can be more. It's also possible to add back if you take too much away. However, yes, the general approach is about removal.

It's difficult to say which is more difficult. I suppose it's possible to have a higher yield of decent shakuhachi using a jiari approach. However, to make a very good flute, both styles require unique effort.

Plastic, metal, bamboo, rubber, ji, glass, seaweed.... making a great shakuhachi is just plain hard!

Ken

ABRAXAS wrote:

...in any event I'll probably be checking out a few shakuhachi manuals to pinpoint if that is the problem and if I should tinker with fixing it.

Please send it (them) around to the rest of us after you've located/acquired it (them).

Thanks in advance.

ABRAXAS wrote:

Basically I was referring to the few "how to make a shakuhachi" manuals online and at Monty Levinson's site, etc. Are my expectations too high?

My technical knowledge about shakuhachi-making is hovering right around zero, so I'm approximately at the level of a medieval monk speculating about what makes lightening.

I think it probably comes around to what appears to me to be Mujitsu's take on the matter, which is: "Make a hundred shakuhachi, and you'll get a bit closer to having a proper manual." I'm paraphrasing, of course .

ABRAXAS wrote:

No doubt! .... why I was careful to say "tinker with it"

This is one area at least that I have no delusions of competence!

The great thing about shakuhachi is that it's just a hollow stick with
holes. So, it's as simple as you want it to be. Of course the difficulty is
that it's a hollow stick with holes!

Ed - I like your paraphrasing more than my take!

Seth wrote:

I would suspect that making a good jinashi takes more skill and effort then making a good jiari.
Jinashi is created only by taking away material, while for a Jiari you can take away and add.
Jinashi s like sculpting in wood, which is horribly unforgiving. One bad chisel mark and its all over. 
While Jiari making is like sculpting in clay.  If you make a mistake. no sweat, you can just slop on a bit more paste and start over...
But I actually don't know what I am talking about as I have never made a shakuhachi.  Is the above true?

My favourite analogy is that jinashi making is like water colour painting and jinuri is like oil painting.
If you have one bad stroke with water colour painting the whole thing is ruined.
With oil painting you can redo it again and again...
But we all know that it requires just as amazing trained skills and artistry to make an oil painting as a water colour painting.
And I think that is just how it is with jinuri and jinashi making

Don't worry, your crayons are probably better than my finger painting

chattemao wrote:

isn't  hochiku easy broken   >?

Most quality jinashi/hocchiku are made from aged pieces of bamboo, so they're less liable to crack. Of course, when an instrument is well taken care of (played regularly and kept at appropriate humidity), it shouldn't have any problems.

Zak