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#1 2009-04-23 08:49:20
- Tim Hunt
- Member
- From: Australia
- Registered: 2007-11-08
- Posts: 9
Baroque Composition
Good evening everyone, it has been quite some time since i last posted, so please forgive a short introduction.
I am an Australian music student studying at UWS, i play Guitar, Harmonica, Viola and Shakuhachi [though not that well]
I am currently in the second year of my music course, and have chosen to major in composition. My current major assignment is to write a piece of approximately 6-8 minutes, utilising 4-6 instruments, at least one of which must be a 'non-western' instrument, and at least one of which must be a 'western' instrument.
For this i am writing a Baroque suite for string trio, harpsichord and shakuhachi. The main idea will be to conform to the fairly intensive rules of the baroque suite form and structure, while having fun with the less 'conventional' shakuhachi melodies and ornamentations.
In an effort to prove that i have actually studied the shakuhachi [rather than finding out a Japanese name for 'flute'] i am planning to write out the shakuhachi part in both standard notation and one of the shakuhachi notation schools.
I am here to ask advice for which one.
I am most familiar with reading and writing Kinko notation, but have never seen or used rhythmic notation.
The reason for writing the shakuhachi notation along with the score is to give the performer [who probably doesn't exist, but this is on of the assessment criteria] a clear understanding of what i want them to do as well as how to do it.
So i would really like some advice on what notations style would be most fitting [i will be using mostly 4/4 and 3/4 time signatures], as well as what side-notes i should give a shakuhachi player who is approaching the piece.
Thank you
Tim
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#2 2009-04-24 09:14:33
- Tim Hunt
- Member
- From: Australia
- Registered: 2007-11-08
- Posts: 9
Re: Baroque Composition
Sorry, just to clarify a post that contained a lot of useless information, i am simply asking what way would be best to notate music with complex rhythms for the shakuhachi.
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#3 2009-04-24 09:51:05
Re: Baroque Composition
I think maybe people aren't sure how to reply because the best way to write out something with a lot of complex baroque-style rhythms (I assume you mean double-dotted notes, funky ligatures and so on) is probably... Western notation. That's how Yamamoto Hozan writes his "contemporary hogaku," how Takemitsu Toru wrote the shakuhachi part in November Steps, etc. etc...
Maybe you could compromise by writing the ロ, レ etc. above the staff? Or, if the main goal is to show you can write traditional-style notation, work in a shakuhachi cadenza more amenable to traditional notation in the first place? (That would also let you show off your understanding of the shakuhachi as a solo instrument and prove that you aren't just using it, as you say, as a cool-sounding flute.)
That said, the Kinko notation I'm familiar with has a way of indicating rhythm -- commas and so on for quarter notes (and longer), strikethrough lines for eighths, double strikethrough for sixteenths. For Tozan (I think), check out the PDFs and MP3s on this site: http://www.musicon.co.jp/kouza.htm. It's kind of a similar principle except the lines are off to the side.
Last edited by No-sword (2009-04-24 09:54:32)
Matt / no-sword.jp
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#4 2009-04-24 11:34:57
Re: Baroque Composition
Tim,
No-sword makes some important points, but I'd like to add a thought: The best notation is always the one that best conveys the composer's intent to the musician who has to play it.
That said, any of the notation systems that have been mentioned have mechanisms for indicating complex rhythmic ideas. One can argue the various merit of one system versus another, but really, it all depends on who you're writing for.
I've done a few 4 and 5-part arrangements of jazz and pop tunes for shakuhachi players in Kinko and, with a little tweaking, they worked fine. The same could have been done in Tozan or Chikuho (if I were as fluent in either of those!).
I may be biased here (!) but I think, generally, here in the US, Kinko has become a more universally recognized notation.
But, once again, it depends on who's going to be playing it.
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#5 2009-04-24 23:28:31
- Tim Hunt
- Member
- From: Australia
- Registered: 2007-11-08
- Posts: 9
Re: Baroque Composition
Thank you both for your replies.
I will put some further thought into it, as there are a number of factors to juggle.
A main advantage to using a shakuhachi notation in addition to standard notation is that i can write the alternative fingerings and meri indications that i want. Writing this above the standard notation part would [probably] be much more confusing, as i am making the player read two notation systems at once.
Perhaps the best way for me to do it would be to have the standard notation shakuhachi part written on the 'conductors' score, and the part that the shakuhachi player is actually given is written in Kinko. That way the 'main' score shows what the shakuhachi is doing in 'western' musical terms [noting non-standard fingerings as needed], and the shakuhachi player is given what should be a very user-friendly score.
Does that sound right?
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#6 2009-04-24 23:36:57
Re: Baroque Composition
Tim Hunt wrote:
Thank you both for your replies.
I will put some further thought into it, as there are a number of factors to juggle.
A main advantage to using a shakuhachi notation in addition to standard notation is that i can write the alternative fingerings and meri indications that i want. Writing this above the standard notation part would [probably] be much more confusing, as i am making the player read two notation systems at once.
Perhaps the best way for me to do it would be to have the standard notation shakuhachi part written on the 'conductors' score, and the part that the shakuhachi player is actually given is written in Kinko. That way the 'main' score shows what the shakuhachi is doing in 'western' musical terms [noting non-standard fingerings as needed], and the shakuhachi player is given what should be a very user-friendly score.
Does that sound right?
Sounds like a good plan - I'd give it a shot. Have fun. As they say in Japanese: Gambatte kudasai!
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#7 2009-04-25 01:27:30
Re: Baroque Composition
have fun with it. I am writting a quartet for Shakuhachi/violin/cello/piano. Is inspired by Janacek string quartet #1.
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#9 2009-05-09 03:36:49
- Tim Hunt
- Member
- From: Australia
- Registered: 2007-11-08
- Posts: 9
Re: Baroque Composition
that is the current plan, after further thought it became apparent that a booklet of kinko notation would be nearly useless to my markers. I will just make a note whenever i want a 'non-standard' fingering or technique, giving a quick English description of the sound, and the Japanese character.
Thank you all for your advice and input
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