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#1 2006-10-31 02:29:36

Toffe
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2006-06-05
Posts: 117

My bamboo supply is cracking!! Mayday!!

I just got my hands on 23 bambo rods of 2.45 meters length (around 8 feet) . They are cut rather close to the root, so the bottom part has a great tapered bore.
It's great! I can finally start making flutes for real!

But I encountered a problem...

The first night one of the rods cracked all the way through and all the way up. This piece was cut a bit higher up and was bigger in diameter but with thinner walls and further between the nodes. I figured that was because it was a much weaker rod than the other.

Then I cut up a piece to make a 2.0. Looking good so far and it left me with 1.85m long (around 6 feet). This piec would be great to make another jinashi and perhaps a sideblown flute. However, tonight the 1.85-piece cracked all the way through from top to bottom.

My theory is that when the pieces looses the thicker near-root piece it can't hold together. So far none of the 2.45-rods with thick base has cracked.
They have been stored in sweden for months and now I have them in my basement. It's rather warm and a bit dry down there. I don't have the money to get an air moisterizer (is called that)


What should I do?
Should I bind my supply while it is stored?
When I cut off the bottom part for a shakuhachi, should I hack upp the rest of the rod for flutes also? Or should I bind the remaining with monofilement?
Is shorter pieces less "crackable"?


Thanks in advance.

// Chris the devastated Swede.

Last edited by Toffe (2006-10-31 06:29:01)

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#2 2006-10-31 07:29:47

gmiller
Member
From: Ozello Trail, Fla
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 109

Re: My bamboo supply is cracking!! Mayday!!

I would definetly cut the root ends and store them in a cool HUMID place.....

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#3 2006-10-31 08:01:16

Toffe
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2006-06-05
Posts: 117

Re: My bamboo supply is cracking!! Mayday!!

What about the rest nof the rods?... they will make excellent flutes as well....
Are there less risk of cracking if they are shorter?

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#4 2006-10-31 10:54:52

gmiller
Member
From: Ozello Trail, Fla
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 109

Re: My bamboo supply is cracking!! Mayday!!

Cut it all up into desireable lengths; the key is to store them properly, which means a humid environment; keep the moisture content in the bamboo as high as possible....

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#5 2006-10-31 11:09:40

dstone
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From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: My bamboo supply is cracking!! Mayday!!

Chris,

In addition to the high-humidity approach to save the clan...   Are you planning to close up the cracks on the split stock?  Might as well, eh?  Wet towel, high humidity, and binding (and possibly epoxy or urushi or superglue)...  you might still end up with some very nice, heavily-scarred flutes.   (Not that anyone wishes for it, but this is an opportunity for valuable crack-fixing practice.)

Good luck!  And I feel your pain.  Bamboo doesn't grow on trees in Vancouver, either.  hmm

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#6 2006-10-31 14:10:36

Karmajampa
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From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: My bamboo supply is cracking!! Mayday!!

Chris, where did the culms originate ?
Sounds like they have been exposed to an extreme condition change. As Darren says, wrap them in a moist bag,  I note you say the wall is thin, this could be that they are too young, what variety of bamboo have you got there ?

Kel.


Kia Kaha !

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#7 2006-10-31 16:06:50

Toffe
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2006-06-05
Posts: 117

Re: My bamboo supply is cracking!! Mayday!!

Thanks guys! Thank you dstone for sharing my pain.. when a bamboo cracks, a piece of me cracks with it.
I migth try and repair the culms though, that's good idea.

The culms are not too young. The thinner walls are on the parts that grows higher from the ground.
They come from china. They have been here in Sweden since May, but now the air is getting a bit dryer as the winter is coming.
They might have disliked riding on the car in a surfing board bag...


Is there a good way to keep the whole 245cm culms moistorized?
It feels a bit drastic to make desicions on about 45 flutes right away.

Could I store the long ones some way and keep the moist?
Maybe if I put them in huge plastig bags and leave soaked spunges inside a smaller open bag inside the bigger one, on both sides?

Thanks...

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#8 2006-10-31 18:21:28

gmiller
Member
From: Ozello Trail, Fla
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 109

Re: My bamboo supply is cracking!! Mayday!!

I live in So. Florida - pretty humid here all the time; I just leave culms outside in the shade. One problem with bagging them and leaving moist/wet sponges inside is mold.... If you can, i would leave them outside or at least someplace away from dry heat.... and perhaps away from freezing cold, although I have no knowledge of the effects of extreme cold. I know it gets pretty cold in Japan, but I have no idea how cut culms react to the cold. Perhaps Tom Deaver could help....

Good luck

George

Last edited by gmiller (2006-10-31 18:22:18)

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#9 2006-10-31 19:34:56

amokrun
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

Re: My bamboo supply is cracking!! Mayday!!

Toffe wrote:

They have been here in Sweden since May, but now the air is getting a bit dryer as the winter is coming.

Not that I have much experience with raw bamboo, but given that I live in Finland, we get pretty much the same kind of winter as you have in Sweden. When I bought my first flute, it was november in here. At first everything seemed fine, but after taking the flute out a couple of times (in a bag, but still), few small cracks developed on it. Thanks to binding there was no damage apart from cosmetic flaws, but I still freaked out quite a bit.

Ever since that I have tried to figure out ways to prevent damage to bamboo in crazy climates like we have here. Although most people talk about moisture, temperature seems to also play an important role. What helped for me is to keep the bamboo somewhat warm at all times. Avoid sudden changes in temperature and make sure that the place you are using for storage isn't very cold. If possible, try to have something covering the bamboo. I have had some success with bags that have few layers of cloth and something thicker between them.

Again, I'm by no means an expert on bamboo, but these things made the difference for me in similar conditions to what you are most likely experiencing.

ps. Where in Sweden do you live?

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#10 2006-10-31 21:32:23

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: My bamboo supply is cracking!! Mayday!!

Then if they are already dried, not fresh cut, I am not sure. Rapidly drying would cause cracking, I have done that. In the surfboard bag, was that on top of your car, did they get exposed to wind that would possible have a drying effect, also cooling.
I keep my fresh cut culms under my house until I am ready to use them. I am in New Zealand with a warm, semi-moist climate. I am not getting cracking.

Kel.


Kia Kaha !

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#11 2006-11-02 06:50:06

Toffe
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2006-06-05
Posts: 117

Re: My bamboo supply is cracking!! Mayday!!

Tonight 4 more long culms cracked.. I'm freaking out here.

So I'm cutting them up in smaller pieces. Leaving them outside is no option here, since may get below -20 degrees celsius here.
I moved them to a cooler room, with no radiator. I put them on the floor where it is more cold.

If I put a bowl with a wet sponge in the room next to the culms, would that be of any help?

I cut up some of the culms in pieces around 1 meter. They are now in a black plastic bag (not entirely closed, the bag is a bit too short).
How can I keep the humidity high inside the bag without risking water damage to the culms?


// Chris the Swede

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#12 2006-11-02 07:18:18

gmiller
Member
From: Ozello Trail, Fla
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 109

Re: My bamboo supply is cracking!! Mayday!!

Yes, a bowl w/ water or even a pot of water helps. You want to make a humidor... like a cigar humidor. Check then out periodically for mold; it wipes off easily. Keep the culms away from dry heat. The thicker walled sections will have a better chance of surviving....

Good Luck

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#13 2006-11-02 22:13:25

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: My bamboo supply is cracking!! Mayday!!

In your first post you said one cracked on the first night, had you already cut off the root end section ?
Then you said you cut off a 2.0 root end and the upper section cracked, did the root end section you cut off also crack ? If not, I wonder why not.
I have pieces in a very dry location, also fairly warm, and they are not cracking.

I suggest you call the supplier and tell them your conditions and get details of how they were stored previous to you picking them up, Then see what differences there are. I am curious as to how gradual changes are affecting them, I think there is a more radical change that has occured.
I am not sure that moisture is the answer either, too much can also cause cracking.
Kel.


Kia Kaha !

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#14 2006-11-03 05:19:29

Toffe
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2006-06-05
Posts: 117

Re: My bamboo supply is cracking!! Mayday!!

Karmajampa...

The first night a whole 245cm piece cracked from top to bottom. That piece was intact, I had not removed the rootend section.
Then I cut off a 2.0 piece from another 245cm culm. The rootend piece is allright but the remaining culm cracked during the night.

In Sweden we have a rather radical change during these months. We go from a rather humid 15-25 degrees celsius to VERY dry air and 5-25 degrees subzero in just a couple of months.
The room a stored them in gets rather warm and since there is pretty much no humid in the air now I guess it swelled too quickly. It had been stored a bit colder earlier.

4 more culms cracked up there. But yesterday I moved them to a cooler room, lying on the floor. Nothing has happened to them yet.

I think that the reason the rootend dindn't crack while the upper part did is that the walls are much thinner up the culm.
So they probably swell faster, and with the rootend on it keeps them together a bit longer.


// Chris

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