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#1 2007-03-11 16:41:01

Neobushizen
Member
From: Paris, France
Registered: 2007-03-11
Posts: 1

Drone Shakuhachi ?

Hi everyone !

I am new on this forum and I'm glad to enter that community.
I love japanese traditional music and especially the shakuhachi and I eventually decided to buy one a week ago.
I bought it on internet and I didn't pay attention to the fact that there were no holes on it... :$
The instrument is beautiful and I manage to produce a sound  (I didn't learn how to play) but I wonder how to do some variations ?
Is it possible to make holes in it ?
Thanks in advance to enlighten me about drone shakuhachi.
Best Regards

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#2 2007-03-11 17:43:10

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Drone Shakuhachi ?

If this was an Ebay purchase and it was from Perry Yung, I'm sure he could help you out. If not, he still might be able to help you out or some maker closer to where you live probably could. About all you can do with a drone flute is practice the fundamental note straight, practice it with articulations, practice getting different dynamic levels (loud and soft and everything in between), pratice harmonics, both sustaining and trasnsitioning through them, pratice flutter tonguing, practice circular breathing, practice rhythms with articulations, practice rhythms using circular breathing, practice vocalizing unison and harmonies on top of the drone tone... I can't think of anything else of the top of my head, but I think you can see my point that the lack of holes is less limiting than it sounds. On the other hand, you can take the zen approach. Put the flute to your lips, play a beautiful tone for the length of your breath, pull the flute away, appreciate the silence, and repeat indefinitely.

Rather than immediately exchanging your flute or modifying it to "fit your needs", I'd suggest contemplating whether or not getting the "wrong" flute may been a blessing.

Of course, who knows what any action you take will reveal. Making holes yourself could lead you on a creative path to making instruments, seeking repair people could open up a channel of communication that is invaluable, the feelings invloved with exchanging it could give you a new respect for what you had...

All that said, you'll probably want one with holes eventually.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#3 2007-03-11 20:32:53

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Drone Shakuhachi ?

Hey radi0gnome,

I found your post very interesting and it helped me to see the possible value in a drone shakuhachi.  It seems to remove the temptation to experiment and keeps you focused on one thing.  I know that the drone helps you focus on the Ro, but isn't a simpler way to just play your shakuhachi with all the holes covered?  I don't know.  The drone seems interesting, but if you are going to practice a single note wouldn't it be better to do it on the instrument you plan on playing (i.e. your shakuhachi).  How much do those drones go for out of curiousity?

Another question.  Is it possible to do circular breathing on a shakuhachi, or is it for the super advanced only?  I have tried to learn it a little, and am new to the idea.  I have been practicing now and then by blowing through a straw into a bowl of water.  Something that freaks my girlfriend out when she catches me doing it :-D

While I am embrassing myself I will ask one last silly sounding question.  I read somewhere that buying a length of about 3 or 4 feet of plastic tubing (like a hose) and using it to draw water up from a bucket helps you to develop your diaphragm.  Is this total nonsense or a useful exercise? I am curious.  thanks

Matt


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#4 2007-03-11 21:14:28

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Drone Shakuhachi ?

Hi Lorka, and welcome to the shakuhachi.
Radi0gnome's post is insightful and that perspective is well taken, however it seems that you are interested in learning the intsrument from a traditional point of view.  If that is the case then many of the aspects of practice that radi0gnome pointed out will be dealt with as intrinsic parts of the traditional repertoire and certainly will be introduced through the music as the pieces increase in difficulty.  Techniques like vocalizing and circular breathing won't be found in the traditional repertoire.
Another question about the piece of bamboo you bought: Was it advertised as a 'drone' shakuhachi or was it advertised simply as a shakuhachi?  The reason I ask is that I would probably consider what you bought as an incomplete shakuhachi.  I have never come across a 'drone' shakuhachi in the traditional world.  The suggestion of getting it to a skilled maker to be finished is a good one.  You might also consider trying to find a reputable teacher who can help you through some of the perplexing times ahead.
With respect to strengthening yourself, there are probably many things you could do, however the best is to practice your instrument regularly with good guidance.
jeff


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#5 2007-03-11 21:28:07

Michael Howard
Member
From: Kingston WA
Registered: 2006-03-22
Posts: 44
Website

Re: Drone Shakuhachi ?

Jeff Cairns wrote:

Hi Lorka, and welcome to the shakuhachi.
Radi0gnome's post is insightful and that perspective is well taken, however it seems that you are interested in learning the intsrument from a traditional point of view.  If that is the case then many of the aspects of practice that radi0gnome pointed out will be dealt with as intrinsic parts of the traditional repertoire and certainly will be introduced through the music as the pieces increase in difficulty.  Techniques like vocalizing and circular breathing won't be found in the traditional repertoire.
Another question about the piece of bamboo you bought: Was it advertised as a 'drone' shakuhachi or was it advertised simply as a shakuhachi?  The reason I ask is that I would probably consider what you bought as an incomplete shakuhachi.  I have never come across a 'drone' shakuhachi in the traditional world.  The suggestion of getting it to a skilled maker to be finished is a good one.  You might also consider trying to find a reputable teacher who can help you through some of the perplexing times ahead.
With respect to strengthening yourself, there are probably many things you could do, however the best is to practice your instrument regularly with good guidance.
jeff

Hey Jeff, I'm pretty sure this was a drone Perry had for sale last week, I'm almost positive. The auction was clear though that it was a drone and detailed how it is to be used. Perry is always very careful with his listings. If it was not his drone disregard this message.


The Tao is (like) the emptiness of a vessel; and in our employment of it we must be on our guard against all fulness. How deep and unfathomable it is, as if it were the Honoured Ancestor of all things!

www.kolbeflutes.com       http://www.myspace.com/bushidoshakuhachi

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#6 2007-03-11 22:40:23

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Drone Shakuhachi ?

Lorka wrote:

I found your post very interesting and it helped me to see the possible value in a drone shakuhachi.  {...} How much do those drones go for out of curiousity?

Thanks Lorka. Just for the record, I don't have a drone shakuhachi myself, although seeing them go through on Ebay got me to experimenting and I plan to turn a bamboo didjeridu I have into one. I don't know how much Perry Yung charges outright for them, but I think on the last couple of auctions they were bid up to somewhere around $30.   

Lorka wrote:

Another question.  Is it possible to do circular breathing on a shakuhachi, or is it for the super advanced only?  I have tried to learn it a little, and am new to the idea.  I have been practicing now and then by blowing through a straw into a bowl of water.  Something that freaks my girlfriend out when she catches me doing it :-D

Yes, it's possible to do on shakuhachi, I do it a lot, and I'm not even a moderately advanced player. I've been thinking about writing a tutorial on this forum on it, I feel like I owe it to the forum for all the information I got here. But in the meantime, here's a link to the topic on Larry Krantz's silver flute site. The first bit of information is from Robert Dick, the guy who literally wrote the book on extended techniques for silver flute, and the second was from me, Charles Koeppen, somewhere around '97. My views on the subject haven't changed much:

http://www.larrykrantz.com/faqflute.htm#2182

Lorka wrote:

While I am embrassing myself I will ask one last silly sounding question.  I read somewhere that buying a length of about 3 or 4 feet of plastic tubing (like a hose) and using it to draw water up from a bucket helps you to develop your diaphragm.  Is this total nonsense or a useful exercise?

I never tried but I've heard of it. The problem with most of these exercises that don't involve actually playing the instrument is that most people probably are not going to do them enough to make any difference even if they do work.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#7 2007-03-11 22:40:36

silentnote
Member
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2006-03-03
Posts: 5

Re: Drone Shakuhachi ?

Hi Lorka- Remember, Silence is a musical note unto itself. It's length has dramatic effect in the music. Circular breathing would remove this 'Peace' from it. wink

Nicely stated radi0gnome- cool "Put the flute to your lips, play a beautiful tone for the length of your breath, pull the flute away, appreciate the silence, and repeat indefinitely."

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#8 2007-03-12 09:43:42

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Drone Shakuhachi ?

Thanks for the info Radi0gnome and silentnote.  I am aware of, and agree with the point about the value of silence and pauses.  I was actually going to write a disertation on that very topic in the poetic arts, as there is much to talk about with regard to silence :-) But back to shakuhachi.  I am curious about circular breathing for a couple of reasons.  It seems like a useful skill that could be used (though not abused) for personal experimentation with the shakuhachi, and secondly, I may want to try the didgj out at some point, and it is needed for that instrument (or so I have been led to believe). 

The silences in the shakuhachi music I have heard thus far are as important as anything else.  I also like the decay of sound, I think I read somewhere on the internet that someone called it the 'Golden Decay', but I can't remember where I read it.  The moment where breath ascends into music, and music unravels into silence contains a truly magical quality.  If I were to learn to circular breathe I would do so with a minfulness to the observations that I have just made, and would see it as one tool among many through which to express myself and try to be honest through the instrument.

I guess I should add to this that I have read (and mostly agree) with points that have already been made on this forum that suggest that circular breathing is not 'all that necessary' for shakuhachi.  Point taken, but it would be better to have the ability to do it when wanted than not to have the ability to do it at all.  It is not high on my list of priorities, as I am still struggling at the 2 month mark (without teacher so far).  Though I am a rank newbie I get true pleasure from the dialogue between myself and the shakuhachi, and every little improvement is a blessing. 

I read the link you posted Radi0gnome, and found it very useful, as was your own post.  You mentioned a tongue technique (sounds kinky) that would help you avoid the 'puffed up cheecks'.  I tried with the puffed cheecks and aside from feeling somewhat ridiculous I found it impossible to puff them up while maintaining the embrochure.  You said there was another way that involved pushing out the air with tongue and cheek muscules.  If you ever get the time to make that post about circular breathing specifically for the shakuhachi I for one would greatly appreciate the chance to read it. 

Oh, and Hi Neobushizen and welcome (I am new here myself).  I am sure your drone will be useful, you should keep it and get another flute if you can.  If you ask around people here will give you lots of good advice about what kind of flute to start you off with.  The people here are very friendly and will help you with your confusions.

Matt

Last edited by Lorka (2007-03-12 09:47:34)


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#9 2007-03-12 10:20:44

Harry
Member
From: Dublin, Ireland.
Registered: 2006-04-24
Posts: 221
Website

Re: Drone Shakuhachi ?

Method (circular breathing) from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_breathing

The person inhales fully and begins to exhale and blow. When the lungs are nearly empty, the last volume of air is blown into the mouth, and the cheeks are inflated with this air. Then, while still blowing this last bit of air out by allowing the cheeks to deflate, the person must very quickly fill the lungs by inhaling through the nose prior to running out of the air in the mouth. If done correctly, by the time the air in the mouth is nearly exhausted the person can begin to exhale from the lungs once more, ready to repeat the process again.

Physiologically, the process is similar to drinking at a water fountain and taking a breath of air while water remains in the mouth, without raising the head from the water stream. The body "knows" to not allow water into the lungs. It is this same instinct that a circular breather uses to play his instrument.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I'm looking at circular breathing in relation to the Armenian Duduk. One issue that you'd have on the skakuhachi is that you're cheeks aren't generally puffed out for playing, and you'll be maintaining your embouchure with your mouth (duduk, didge etc. involve making a seal; sealing the mouth around the reed in the first instance, sealing the end of the didge with the mouth in the latter).

I'm no pro BTW :-)

Regards,

Harry.

Last edited by Harry (2007-03-12 10:25:19)


"As God once said, and I think rightly..." (Margaret Thatcher)

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